arby
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Post by arby on Jan 5, 2019 20:38:46 GMT
You're kidding. I give up on you godanubis, you are definitely a misguided Apologist. You want my opinion on Godanubis? No, I thought not but that hasn't stopped me in the past  They just see value still to be extracted from FS if only all the naysayers would keep quiet. You see, their strategy relies not on due diligence or seeking out a few select loans to make their profit, no, it relies on trading and to do that you need willing buyers to take the risk from you whilst paying your accrued interest - and what do they get in return, the promise of a higher than average AER. It's just a job to them, managing their portfolio daily (perhaps hourly, I wouldn't be surprised), and part of that job is to come here and counter some of the experiences of people who have considerable sums stuck in FS (quite possibly purchased from Godanubis to really stick salt into those wounds). I think once you realise where they're coming from then all seems to fit into place. Godanubis - RE: vegans & flatulence - rate will surely increase but then noxiousness would decrease, no? So what about people like me who often buy on the SM and almost always assume I will hold to completion? While things may not work out in the future, as it currently stands after almost 2 years and over 100 loans I've only had 1 loss so FS far. I'm sure that more are coming, but I still believe that it's possible to make decent returns on FS, but careful loan selection and a sizeable dose of luck in avoiding some of the lemons is needed.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 5, 2019 21:15:03 GMT
“You can't force someone to buy. So valuer was correct if stone was stolen then insurance would pay the valuation amount.”
Shame it wasn’t stolen. But there again, it clearly wasn’t worth nicking.
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Post by dan1 on Jan 5, 2019 21:20:54 GMT
You want my opinion on Godanubis ? No, I thought not but that hasn't stopped me in the past They just see value still to be extracted from FS if only all the naysayers would keep quiet. You see, their strategy relies not on due diligence or seeking out a few select loans to make their profit, no, it relies on trading and to do that you need willing buyers to take the risk from you whilst paying your accrued interest - and what do they get in return, the promise of a higher than average AER. It's just a job to them, managing their portfolio daily (perhaps hourly, I wouldn't be surprised), and part of that job is to come here and counter some of the experiences of people who have considerable sums stuck in FS (quite possibly purchased from Godanubis to really stick salt into those wounds). I think once you realise where they're coming from then all seems to fit into place. Godanubis - RE: vegans & flatulence - rate will surely increase but then noxiousness would decrease, no? So what about people like me who often buy on the SM and almost always assume I will hold to completion? While things may not work out in the future, as it currently stands after almost 2 years and over 100 loans I've only had 1 loss so FS far. I'm sure that more are coming, but I still believe that it's possible to make decent returns on FS, but careful loan selection and a sizeable dose of luck in avoiding some of the lemons is needed. Sounds as if you seek out a few select loans to make your profit, which, arguably, is the only viable strategy in FS. It's the lemons that has led to the venting on here, the withdrawal of so many investors, and the retraction in the live loan book. Whether that's due to bad luck, poor platform due diligence, valuations that bear little resemblance to distressed sales, or even fraud is discussed daily, and more often than not on the FS board.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 5, 2019 21:53:26 GMT
You're kidding. I give up on you godanubis, you are definitely a misguided Apologist. You want my opinion on Godanubis ? No, I thought not but that hasn't stopped me in the past They just see value still to be extracted from FS if only all the naysayers would keep quiet. You see, their strategy relies not on due diligence or seeking out a few select loans to make their profit, no, it relies on trading and to do that you need willing buyers to take the risk from you whilst paying your accrued interest - and what do they get in return, the promise of a higher than average AER. It's just a job to them, managing their portfolio daily (perhaps hourly, I wouldn't be surprised), and part of that job is to come here and counter some of the experiences of people who have considerable sums stuck in FS (quite possibly purchased from Godanubis to really stick salt into those wounds). I think once you realise where they're coming from then all seems to fit into place. Godanubis - RE: vegans & flatulence - rate will surely increase but then noxiousness would decrease, no? As you know from my past posts I have always advocated DD and especially read your well researched statistics. To sell loans I have to buy at a discount which helps those that are happy with lower returns and no risk. The small amounts I make just make it more interesting. My 15-18% return is mainly from the 0.1-1% Of portfolio I do keep When they meet my DD standards I buy them at the end with large discount so I have greater risk as I buy the accrued interest. People still sell to avoid tax so even when updates say funds are received early. The se are a no brainier as they return >23%. Time spent making portfolio tax free is the most profitable use of time. It keeps a 10% profit from being an 8% return
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 5, 2019 22:01:00 GMT
You want my opinion on Godanubis ? No, I thought not but that hasn't stopped me in the past They just see value still to be extracted from FS if only all the naysayers would keep quiet. You see, their strategy relies not on due diligence or seeking out a few select loans to make their profit, no, it relies on trading and to do that you need willing buyers to take the risk from you whilst paying your accrued interest - and what do they get in return, the promise of a higher than average AER. It's just a job to them, managing their portfolio daily (perhaps hourly, I wouldn't be surprised), and part of that job is to come here and counter some of the experiences of people who have considerable sums stuck in FS (quite possibly purchased from Godanubis to really stick salt into those wounds). I think once you realise where they're coming from then all seems to fit into place. Godanubis - RE: vegans & flatulence - rate will surely increase but then noxiousness would decrease, no? So what about people like me who often buy on the SM and almost always assume I will hold to completion? While things may not work out in the future, as it currently stands after almost 2 years and over 100 loans I've only had 1 loss so FS far. I'm sure that more are coming, but I still believe that it's possible to make decent returns on FS, but careful loan selection and a sizeable dose of luck in avoiding some of the lemons is needed. The naysayers are only venting after experiencing an extremely poor outcome. Careful loan selection - I think most that have a poor experience with FS thought they were in that camp. All it takes is one very poor outcome to totally knock the IRR. Remember the infamous turbine loan - what could have been simpler - all it required was hooking up but FS clearly failed to monitor and the funds were used for other purposes which no amount of personal DD could have avoided. By all accounts it was a no-brainer investment.
So good luck but those good investments will take a heavy blow possibly (eventually) - there's still Whitehaven to come plus several other nasties.
But whilst folks continue to lend then there's no incentive for the FS MO to change.
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arby
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Post by arby on Jan 5, 2019 22:38:40 GMT
So what about people like me who often buy on the SM and almost always assume I will hold to completion? While things may not work out in the future, as it currently stands after almost 2 years and over 100 loans I've only had 1 loss so FS far. I'm sure that more are coming, but I still believe that it's possible to make decent returns on FS, but careful loan selection and a sizeable dose of luck in avoiding some of the lemons is needed. The naysayers are only venting after experiencing an extremely poor outcome. Careful loan selection - I think most that have a poor experience with FS thought they were in that camp. All it takes is one very poor outcome to totally knock the IRR. Remember the infamous turbine loan - what could have been simpler - all it required was hooking up but FS clearly failed to monitor and the funds were used for other purposes which no amount of personal DD could have avoided. By all accounts it was a no-brainer investment.
So good luck but those good investments will take a heavy blow possibly (eventually) - there's still Whitehaven to come plus several other nasties.
But whilst folks continue to lend then there's no incentive for the FS MO to change.
It is very clear that lending is slowing down. There are also tentative signs that FS may be trying to address the slow recovery situation. So maybe things can improve...
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 5, 2019 22:44:41 GMT
So what about people like me who often buy on the SM and almost always assume I will hold to completion? While things may not work out in the future, as it currently stands after almost 2 years and over 100 loans I've only had 1 loss so FS far. I'm sure that more are coming, but I still believe that it's possible to make decent returns on FS, but careful loan selection and a sizeable dose of luck in avoiding some of the lemons is needed. The naysayers are only venting after experiencing an extremely poor outcome. Careful loan selection - I think most that have a poor experience with FS thought they were in that camp. All it takes is one very poor outcome to totally knock the IRR. Remember the infamous turbine loan - what could have been simpler - all it required was hooking up but FS clearly failed to monitor and the funds were used for other purposes which no amount of personal DD could have avoided. By all accounts it was a no-brainer investment.
So good luck but those good investments will take a heavy blow possibly (eventually) - there's still Whitehaven to come plus several other nasties.
But whilst folks continue to lend then there's no incentive for the FS MO to change.
If you still stick to the maximum 1% in any loan no matter how good . Except those that sales have already taken place then your loss is restricted to just that 1% . With returns of 13% on average and a current default rate <10% (most still giving a capital return) Then you physically cannot make a loss. Which you could offset if not in FISA To get the 20% losses the stock markets are currently seeing you would have to invest heavily in every loss making loan only.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 5, 2019 22:50:56 GMT
The naysayers are only venting after experiencing an extremely poor outcome. Careful loan selection - I think most that have a poor experience with FS thought they were in that camp. All it takes is one very poor outcome to totally knock the IRR. Remember the infamous turbine loan - what could have been simpler - all it required was hooking up but FS clearly failed to monitor and the funds were used for other purposes which no amount of personal DD could have avoided. By all accounts it was a no-brainer investment.
So good luck but those good investments will take a heavy blow possibly (eventually) - there's still Whitehaven to come plus several other nasties.
But whilst folks continue to lend then there's no incentive for the FS MO to change.
It is very clear that lending is slowing down. There are also tentative signs that FS may be trying to address the slow recovery situation. So maybe things can improve... Possibly FS are trying to address their recovery procedures but only time will tell.
To quote a post from mrclondon - 12th May 18 - 'The underlying issue is that the p2p industry can't see why the lack of transperency is a concern for lenders. But, of course, "Trust us" only works if there is no reason to doubt it (and there are now many reasons why p2p platforms do not have our total trust).'
I think we have now or are close to reaching that trust issue.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 5, 2019 23:31:27 GMT
Trust will take a long time. Like fixing a broken plate the crack is always there to remind you. There is still a difference in mistrust which can be overcome with evidence to show improvement and paranoia which no matter what taints you perspective.
A few here are paranoid.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Jan 5, 2019 23:40:13 GMT
Trust will take a long time. There is still a difference in mistrust A few here are paranoid.You have such a delicate way of winning friendship! 😆
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jan 6, 2019 0:03:30 GMT
Trust will take a long time. There is still a difference in mistrust A few here are paranoid.You have such a delicate way of winning friendship! 😆 Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean everybody isn’t actually after you 
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Jan 6, 2019 0:44:17 GMT
The price achievable in a distressed sale.
It would be nice if this were the norm and if you check some of my other posts that is the position I take. In reality it is not.
So why are you suggesting as you do in an earlier post that it's the insurance value that's used in the LTV (see your previous post suggesting that the Insurance value is always used unless otherwise specified - and there is no evidence of the contrary).
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Jan 7, 2019 14:31:29 GMT
The price achievable in a distressed sale.
It would be nice if this were the norm and if you check some of my other posts that is the position I take. In reality it is not.
So why are you suggesting as you do in an earlier post that it's the insurance value that's used in the LTV (see your previous post suggesting that the Insurance value is always used unless otherwise specified - and there is no evidence of the contrary).
All financial institutions Should be trustworthy; unfortunately there are certain aspects of P2P where that is not the case. I don't expect them to run off with my money, but have little trust in the way they present the level of risk for some loans. It would be dishonest to say a gemstone could be sold on the open market for its insurance value, but dishonesty by omission to quote an insurance valuation without saying on what basis that valuation was given.There must be higher risk for a 12% product than a 1% product, but the issue as I see it is being (deliberately?) misinformed what the REAL RISK actually is. It's unreasonable to say an LTV is 70% if in reality it is 700%. P2P need to clean up their act: State a reasonably accurate LTV, even if that is 90+% and let lenders decide if they want to invest at the offered interest rate and LTV. Anything else is dishonest. P2P platforms need to tell borrowers if the collateral they are offering is insufficient for the amount they want to borrow;tell them to offer additional security if necessary..
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 7, 2019 14:38:46 GMT
So why are you suggesting as you do in an earlier post that it's the insurance value that's used in the LTV (see your previous post suggesting that the Insurance value is always used unless otherwise specified - and there is no evidence of the contrary).
All financial institutions Should be trustworthy, unfortunately there are certain aspects of P2P where that is not the case. I don't expect them to run off with my money, but have little trust in the way they present the level of risk for some loans. It would be dishonest to say a gemstone could be sold on the open market for its insurance value, but dishonesty by omission to quote an insurance valuation without saying on what basis that valuation was given.There must be higher risk for a 12% product than a 1% product, but the issue as I see it is being (deliberately?) misinformed what the REAL RISK actually is. It's unreasonable to say an LTV is 70% if in reality it is 700%. P2P need to clean up their act: State a reasonably accurate LTV, even if that is 90% and let lenders decide if they want to invest at the offered interest rate and LTV. Anything else is dishonest. Which is precisely what I've been banging on about for years. Initially there was a definite view that it was a case of " Well, that's just the way P2P is, you have to put up with it" ( Whaaaaa?!!!) I had very few supporters at the time who understood the gravity of the VR situation and a couple of years later when massive losses have racked up, Oh how some tunes have changed! ( Read the full saga under Lendy / PBL157/PBL158 - R*****a & C****t, H****** Court Rd DEFAULT for the Full Monty.  ) EDIT / PS: My other hobby horse - Where are The FCA in all this? What do they actually DO to protect Lenders in P2P? We all know what they do, sweet Football Association. At least they're consistent. At being ineffective and useless.
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Post by waryinvestor on Jan 12, 2019 12:31:08 GMT
I think this is a case for Financial Ombudsman (they DO take cases against P2P) or evan FCA. Even though the market was small there is a market . You can't force someone to buy. So valuer was correct if stone was stolen then insurance would pay the valuation amount. if great effort was put into the sale perhaps a higher price could have been attained but the effort may not have been worth it.
You can't expect multiple valuations that's why you have professionals. At some point you have to trust them. It is ok to look back after the fact and accuse them of an error. Unless nearly all this valuers items were wrong then it's just sod's law the occasional valuation may be different from prevaling market conditions.
Roses (artificial and fresh) are thee times or more the price on valentines's day so what is the value of a rose if you were insuring them ?
If the market is small, so is the Demand and the Valuation should reflect that. A small market doesn't justify a 90% over-valuation at all. The whole point is, they should have known about it (small market, blah blah ...) and should have Clarified that the Valuation was only for Insurance Purposes and might not achieve even 50 % of it in Real Life. Clear breach. Point no 3, as mentioned by mjc definitely applies.
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