ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 27, 2018 11:14:59 GMT
"It could be that COL are offering rates to borrowers as competitive, or even more competive, than other platforms but are prepared to accept low margins in order to grow their business?" ........... you could be right georget, but them's some slim margins with a 2% Cashback?! Growth at all costs? I am however still relatively comfortable with COLL and have bunged some filthy lucre into this one as I've said. Next door, I'm not so sure.
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Jan 27, 2018 17:04:44 GMT
10591.60 left on PM. Thought I would F5 before I invest. Still 10591.60 left, but noticed it's changed to secondary market. The guy who took the final 10591.60, immediately dumped it on the SM. Will he still get the cashback? If so looks like a good strategy. I was a bit tardy in getting some cash in for this, so only picked up £50 before cashback ended, oh well. Unless any dramatic changes to the contrary, will likely hold it for the full term. I'm a little less certain about the other new ones, especially seeing as how they are filling very slowly - what are the major concerns that folks have?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 27, 2018 18:12:33 GMT
Owing to a schoolboy error I missed the boat on this one as regards receiving cash back. I have invested in the loan today on the secondary market and therefore will not receive 2% cashback. This is especially infuriating for me because I will be the Investor holding the loan part when the loan draws down yet the original purchaser will be carrying no risk at that point yet will have bagged himself 2% cashback and I think the rules have to change on this. At the very least you should only get cashback if you are holding it when the loan draws down so that effectively it is your money that is going to the borrower. A second mistake I have made in the last 24 hours is confusing this loan with the other Liverpool loan split into three tranches. I had not realised there were as many as three different loans all paying 2% cashback. It is clear that in just one day away from the Fray I have fallen behind in terms of my knowledge and expertise and I need to do some catching up very fast. You do realise that they are all the same borrower and effectively the same project spread across two sites with the farm as added security. Cant see any major advantage in investing in one over the other apart from this being slightly smaller so potentially more liquid. Looks like Col have split them up for listing purposes rathjer than present them as one uber loan (in multiple pieces) The farm is probably realisable on its own but the church & hall are defacto concurrent security
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Post by df on Jan 27, 2018 21:09:19 GMT
10591.60 left on PM. Thought I would F5 before I invest. Still 10591.60 left, but noticed it's changed to secondary market. The guy who took the final 10591.60, immediately dumped it on the SM. Will he still get the cashback? If so looks like a good strategy. I was a bit tardy in getting some cash in for this, so only picked up £50 before cashback ended, oh well. Unless any dramatic changes to the contrary, will likely hold it for the full term. I'm a little less certain about the other new ones, especially seeing as how they are filling very slowly - what are the major concerns that folks have? This is because the other two are much bigger than this one. It doesn't matter which one of them you've invested if you want to hold to term - all three are the same loan.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 28, 2018 16:35:09 GMT
I was a bit tardy in getting some cash in for this, so only picked up £50 before cashback ended, oh well. Unless any dramatic changes to the contrary, will likely hold it for the full term. I'm a little less certain about the other new ones, especially seeing as how they are filling very slowly - what are the major concerns that folks have? This is because the other two are much bigger than this one. It doesn't matter which one of them you've invested if you want to hold to term - all three are the same loan.Are they? Where do you get that from df? They're all the same Borrower, but each Loan is separate I thought? (me being not particularly savvy on these things.) The Loan has been presented AFAICS as a separate, stand alone Loan, on one building? :- "This is a £223,000 loan secured by a first charge against C******* H*** ............Liverpool A debenture over the borrowing company and PG’s from the directors."Otherwise it's misrepresentation isn't it? Surely the particulars would state something like " This is a £223k Loan, part of a parcel of Loans/three Loans Totalling .......... " or some such? ISTM the link is only the Borrower but the Loans are all separate? I understand though that if one Loan defaults the others probably would too. Interested to hear your thinking/rationale? I'm always learning. EDIT / PS : Just checked on DDC and it appears that both loans have been taken out by the one SPV? If so, is this misrepresentation by COLL?
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Post by df on Jan 28, 2018 17:13:35 GMT
This is because the other two are much bigger than this one. It doesn't matter which one of them you've invested if you want to hold to term - all three are the same loan.Are they? Where do you get that from df? They're all the same Borrower, but each Loan is separate I thought? (me being not particularly savvy on these things.) The Loan has been presented AFAICS as a separate, stand alone Loan, on one building? :- "This is a £223,000 loan secured by a first charge against C******* H*** ............Liverpool A debenture over the borrowing company and PG’s from the directors."Otherwise it's misrepresentation isn't it? Surely the particulars would state something like " This is a £223k Loan, part of a parcel of Loans/three Loans Totalling .......... " or some such? ISTM the link is only the Borrower but the Loans are all separate? I understand though that if one Loan defaults the others probably would too. Interested to hear your thinking/rationale? I'm always learning. EDIT / PS : Just checked on DDC and it appears that both loans have been taken out by the one SPV? If so, is this misrepresentation by COLL? Technically they are 3 separate loans secured on 3 different buildings, but I treat them as one for my diversification strategy. As you said, in case of default all three most likely to have the same fate. Some time ago I invested in a series of railway toys loans on FS thinking that it will be okay as they all secured on different items... now they make up a very large proportion of my FS "unredeemed" funds. If I treated them all as one single loan, my loss wouldn't be so upsetting.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 28, 2018 17:23:28 GMT
Ah, careful wot U state then df?! Help me out here though, is there only the one SPV which has taken out both Loans? What a minefield this P2P is.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 28, 2018 17:29:07 GMT
Help me out here though, is there only the one SPV which has taken out both Loans? In essence, just over £2.2m has been borrowed against 3 titles, which are valued in total at £3.2m, so 69.69% LTV. The loan has then been divided (at that same LTV) across each title separately.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 28, 2018 17:34:06 GMT
Thanks SteveT. Isn't this a Material Fact then? Shouldn't such information be clearly stated by the Platforms when presenting these loans?
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jan 28, 2018 17:42:18 GMT
Are they? Where do you get that from df? They're all the same Borrower, but each Loan is separate I thought? (me being not particularly savvy on these things.) The Loan has been presented AFAICS as a separate, stand alone Loan, on one building? :- "This is a £223,000 loan secured by a first charge against C******* H*** ............Liverpool A debenture over the borrowing company and PG’s from the directors."Otherwise it's misrepresentation isn't it? Surely the particulars would state something like " This is a £223k Loan, part of a parcel of Loans/three Loans Totalling .......... " or some such? ISTM the link is only the Borrower but the Loans are all separate? I understand though that if one Loan defaults the others probably would too. Interested to hear your thinking/rationale? I'm always learning. EDIT / PS : Just checked on DDC and it appears that both loans have been taken out by the one SPV? If so, is this misrepresentation by COLL? Technically they are 3 separate loans secured on 3 different buildings, but I treat them as one for my diversification strategy. As you said, in case of default all three most likely to have the same fate. Some time ago I invested in a series of railway toys loans on FS thinking that it will be okay as they all secured on different items... now they make up a very large proportion of my FS "unredeemed" funds. If I treated them all as one single loan, my loss wouldn't be so upsetting. Wondering if these have been set up as separate loans with separate security, even if to the same borrower, if say all 3 defaulted but only 1 or 2 of the securities covered the fees, capital and interest for those loans, whether any surplus could be used to compensate a loss on the others? If not, individual assessment of the security for each is warranted
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Post by df on Jan 28, 2018 18:13:51 GMT
Thanks SteveT. Isn't this a Material Fact then? Shouldn't such information be clearly stated by the Platforms when presenting these loans? In this particular case it is stated by displaying borrower's ID on the top of headline (although in grey and smaller font ). MT and Abl also tell investors what other loans are already taken by the same borrower. I wish some other platforms showed a degree of transparency too. But I agree, the statements are not clear enough.
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Post by df on Jan 28, 2018 18:28:22 GMT
Technically they are 3 separate loans secured on 3 different buildings, but I treat them as one for my diversification strategy. As you said, in case of default all three most likely to have the same fate. Some time ago I invested in a series of railway toys loans on FS thinking that it will be okay as they all secured on different items... now they make up a very large proportion of my FS "unredeemed" funds. If I treated them all as one single loan, my loss wouldn't be so upsetting. Wondering if these have been set up as separate loans with separate security, even if to the same borrower, if say all 3 defaulted but only 1 or 2 of the securities covered the fees, capital and interest for those loans, whether any surplus could be used to compensate a loss on the others? If not, individual assessment of the security for each is warranted Of course, in this scenario they will be treated as separate loans. However, if defaulted, it will take very long time to sell the security and it is very unlikely that they can be sold at the price to cover the fees, capital and interest.
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Post by trentenders on Jan 28, 2018 18:46:09 GMT
Realistically, in the event of a forced sale it's likely that all will be marketed as one listing. In that case, who gets to decide how the sale proceeds are split between the different securities? My 'guess' is that they would be in proportion to the loan amounts, but whether that would be the fair way to do things...
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 28, 2018 19:19:16 GMT
In a Default of these Loans however COLL distributed the proceeds it would be thought unfair by someone. I wasn't in The Toy Trains Stuff over on FS but ISTR there was a kerfuffle on how FS divvied up the sales proceeds from multiple Loans each with "separate" assets, all to the same Borrower. Anyway, may never happen with these loans. EDIT / PS: I bought into an individual , single loan, and I would expect to take the hit or rewards accordingly on that Loan only. If "my" Loan dudded out and I lost capital and/or interest I certainly wouldn't expect any connections with the profitability or otherwise of the other Loans. And I would expect the vice to be versa! I would also expect the asset from each Loan to initially at least be marketed separately so as to maximise prices.
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Post by df on Jan 28, 2018 20:41:50 GMT
In a Default of these Loans however COLL distributed the proceeds it would be thought unfair by someone. I wasn't in The Toy Trains Stuff over on FS but ISTR there was a kerfuffle on how FS divvied up the sales proceeds from multiple Loans each with "separate" assets, all to the same Borrower. Anyway, may never happen with these loans. It may not and all three will be repaid at the end of July , we don't know. We don't even know if the other two will fill, doesn't look very promising atm. I wonder what will happen then?
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