macq
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Post by macq on Feb 5, 2018 22:44:10 GMT
while i have confidence that the loans can be sorted(at least one of mine went today) it seems be the first test of the OC recovery dept. with quite a few late loans recently. But just saying x amount of loans are late does not help. It would be better to have a section of the dashboard showing late loans and what is happening with them rather then the list of postcodes just telling you what loans your in
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Post by oxford101 on Feb 6, 2018 11:16:45 GMT
I have asked OC several times to clarify the status of its loan book with regard to defaults and the recovery process.
While they recognise the problem – or are starting to – any action seems to be taking longer than it should.
I, for one, am becoming increasingly nervous of this company with regard to its responsiveness to lenders, transparency and the low rate of return given the unknown level of risk.
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 7, 2018 18:35:17 GMT
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your messages on this. In terms of the increase in the number of loans that are appearing as on hold, I would stress that this isn’t indicative of a loanbook that's struggling. It's simply a loanbook that's maturing – the product is nearing two years old, and it's only recently that many of the loans will have started to come to the end of their term.
It will help to give a bit more context around the different ways in which a loan can be on hold:
- Loans can be ‘late-paying’ – meaning they have missed two interest payments. There are currently four such loans on the platform. - Loans can be overterm – where the borrower has failed to repay the loan at the end of its term. There are currently three such loans on the platform - Loans can be passed to collection – meaning the property is being sold to fund the debt. There is just one of these on the platform at present, but clearly this could take some time to resolve.
In total, that's 8 loans of a current live loanbook of 213 – or 3.8%.
I’d also emphasise that investors will be the first to be repaid interest if/when it’s repaid – so while of course we clearly can’t ever guarantee all interest will be recovered, given the LTVs we think it’s more likely a situation of interest being repaid on a later date than a permanent drag on the portfolios’ returns.
Having said all that, we do appreciate that we're not currently showing enough information on the performance of individual portfolios – and we understand how the absence of information could inadvertently cause a degree of alarm. Our team is working to change this, and we'll soon be bringing a lot more clarity to your dashboards by breaking down exactly how many of each type of loan are in your portfolio (and the amount invested in them).
Thanks for bearing with us while we work to make this all a bit clearer. I do of course apologise for any uncertainty this has caused and hope this has been of some help in the meantime.
Any other questions, do keep them coming!
Joe
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 7, 2018 20:50:07 GMT
Hi OctopusJoe thanks for the update and the promise of a new section on the account page hopefully soon.I think for myself and probably others part of the problem is the different size of loan parts i.e i have loans of £20/30/50 etc but from my early lump sums i have loans of £400 - £500 (l will let you guess which loans of mine are in trouble but the saying sod's law springs to mind!).It only takes one of the big loans not to repay and you have lost your interest. Hopefully you can also look at the diversification as you can seem to put a lump sum in and then a few months later see new money or repayments go into the same loans which is how i have ended up with some bigger loans at the start. Also your loan book shows the rate the borrower pays and sorry if i have missed it but how do you set the rate to lenders and what would trigger a raise?
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Feb 8, 2018 13:30:20 GMT
Hi everyone, Thanks for your messages on this. In terms of the increase in the number of loans that are appearing as on hold, I would stress that this isn’t indicative of a loanbook that's struggling. It's simply a loanbook that's maturing – the product is nearing two years old, and it's only recently that many of the loans will have started to come to the end of their term. It will help to give a bit more context around the different ways in which a loan can be on hold: - Loans can be ‘ late-paying’ – meaning they have missed two interest payments. There are currently four such loans on the platform. - Loans can be overterm – where the borrower has failed to repay the loan at the end of its term. There are currently three such loans on the platform - Loans can be passed to collection – meaning the property is being sold to fund the debt. There is just one of these on the platform at present, but clearly this could take some time to resolve. In total, that's 8 loans of a current live loanbook of 213 – or 3.8%. I’d also emphasise that investors will be the first to be repaid interest if/when it’s repaid – so while of course we clearly can’t ever guarantee all interest will be recovered, given the LTVs we think it’s more likely a situation of interest being repaid on a later date than a permanent drag on the portfolios’ returns. Having said all that, we do appreciate that we're not currently showing enough information on the performance of individual portfolios – and we understand how the absence of information could inadvertently cause a degree of alarm. Our team is working to change this, and we'll soon be bringing a lot more clarity to your dashboards by breaking down exactly how many of each type of loan are in your portfolio (and the amount invested in them). Thanks for bearing with us while we work to make this all a bit clearer. I do of course apologise for any uncertainty this has caused and hope this has been of some help in the meantime. Any other questions, do keep them coming! Joe Can you give a timescale for the improved information/clarity? Thanks.
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 14, 2018 14:58:57 GMT
Hi OctopusJoe thanks for the update and the promise of a new section on the account page hopefully soon.I think for myself and probably others part of the problem is the different size of loan parts i.e i have loans of £20/30/50 etc but from my early lump sums i have loans of £400 - £500 (l will let you guess which loans of mine are in trouble but the saying sod's law springs to mind!).It only takes one of the big loans not to repay and you have lost your interest. Hopefully you can also look at the diversification as you can seem to put a lump sum in and then a few months later see new money or repayments go into the same loans which is how i have ended up with some bigger loans at the start. Also your loan book shows the rate the borrower pays and sorry if i have missed it but how do you set the rate to lenders and what would trigger a raise? Hi macq, I thought I'd split my response into two separate posts to try and make this a bit clearer. In answer to your first question, it's worth noting that we will automatically rediversify the portfolio of any investor that has more than 10% of their portfolio in any one loan. While of course we can't guarantee either capital or interest, considering the conservative nature of the loans we make (a maximum of 76%, but actually around 60% on average) we're confident that you will get back what you are owed. The main risk we see here to investors would be one of liquidity; ie. if a loan goes into collection, we expect to be able to get the money back – it just could take some time before an investor would be able to access that money.
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 14, 2018 14:59:30 GMT
Also your loan book shows the rate the borrower pays and sorry if i have missed it but how do you set the rate to lenders and what would trigger a raise? And, secondly, the way we calculate the rate investors earn is a little complicated – pricing risk always is, as I’m sure you can appreciate! First things first, any loan we make with a headline rate of 8% or below will return 4% to the investor. The 4% we return breaks down as 0.5% from our first loss investment with the balance earned through a borrower fee. Remember that the interest we make on our first loss investment is only earned if and when investors have earned all their interest themselves. In the event that the borrower can’t repay the full debt, it is this that we use to fund any outstanding interest payable to investors. While the borrower fee pays for the cost of the underwriting, but also funds the liquidity of the platform. The loans are only made available because we’ve financed them first ourselves with our own substantial liquidity pot – helping investors to get their funds working quickly upon initial investment, and also helping to cut down on any cash drag in your portfolio, as when a loan repays the money can be rapidly reinvested. For any loan over 8%, it’s a bit more complex. There’s three steps we follow to work it out from the initial overall rate we charge borrowers: 1. First, we work out how much interest to earn on our first loss investment. For loans with a headline rate of over 8%, we earn 1%. Remember, that's 1% on the total loan – which, because we're contributing 5% of the capital in a far riskier position than investors, equates to a higher return on capital. 2. We then determine the borrower fees. This is calculated by dividing the overall rate in half, then subtracting the first loss interest we earn. (E.g. for a loan with an overall rate of 10%, we'd subtract 1% from 5% to give a fee of 4%). This fee is capped at 4.2%. 3. The remainder we pass on to investors. Let’s put this in practice with a few examples. First let’s look at a 4.99% loan for £1 million – a typical loan you’ll find on our stats page: 1. We’d earn 0.5% of the total loan for our 5% first loss investment (£5,000) 2. Investors would earn a set rate of 4% on their investment of £950,000 (£38,000) 3. We’d earn the remainder as borrower fees (£6,000) Or, in the case of a borrower taking out a loan at 8.99% on a £1 million loan: 1. We’d earn 1% for our 5% first loss investment (£10,000) 2. We’d earn borrower fees of 3.495% (£34,950) 3. The remaining £44,950 is then passed on to investors – an effective return of 4.73% on their investment of £950,000. Appreciate that’s quite a lot of detail, but I hope it helps? Let me know if you have any further questions.
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 14, 2018 14:59:45 GMT
Hi everyone, Thanks for your messages on this. In terms of the increase in the number of loans that are appearing as on hold, I would stress that this isn’t indicative of a loanbook that's struggling. It's simply a loanbook that's maturing – the product is nearing two years old, and it's only recently that many of the loans will have started to come to the end of their term. It will help to give a bit more context around the different ways in which a loan can be on hold: - Loans can be ‘ late-paying’ – meaning they have missed two interest payments. There are currently four such loans on the platform. - Loans can be overterm – where the borrower has failed to repay the loan at the end of its term. There are currently three such loans on the platform - Loans can be passed to collection – meaning the property is being sold to fund the debt. There is just one of these on the platform at present, but clearly this could take some time to resolve. In total, that's 8 loans of a current live loanbook of 213 – or 3.8%. I’d also emphasise that investors will be the first to be repaid interest if/when it’s repaid – so while of course we clearly can’t ever guarantee all interest will be recovered, given the LTVs we think it’s more likely a situation of interest being repaid on a later date than a permanent drag on the portfolios’ returns. Having said all that, we do appreciate that we're not currently showing enough information on the performance of individual portfolios – and we understand how the absence of information could inadvertently cause a degree of alarm. Our team is working to change this, and we'll soon be bringing a lot more clarity to your dashboards by breaking down exactly how many of each type of loan are in your portfolio (and the amount invested in them). Thanks for bearing with us while we work to make this all a bit clearer. I do of course apologise for any uncertainty this has caused and hope this has been of some help in the meantime. Any other questions, do keep them coming! Joe Can you give a timescale for the improved information/clarity? Thanks. Hi ton27, We're hoping this will be in a position to be rolled out in the next couple of weeks.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 14, 2018 16:05:28 GMT
hi Joe thanks for all the info much appreciated - With regards the not more then 10% in a loan idea,i would guess most people would prefer a smaller % in a set & forget product(and probably a pick your own product).Take your point about OC being able to get the money back but with a delay but only time will tell so large loans may still worry some. Its going to take me longer to digest the maths so i may come back to you on that(or one of the more clever people might do it first)But on a quick skim i understand the under 8% loan will return a flat 4% but am still confused as to a 5.5% loan that i have pays me as much as the 7.99% loan i have.Think i need to read more
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 15, 2018 11:43:29 GMT
hi Joe thanks for all the info much appreciated - With regards the not more then 10% in a loan idea,i would guess most people would prefer a smaller % in a set & forget product(and probably a pick your own product).Take your point about OC being able to get the money back but with a delay but only time will tell so large loans may still worry some. Its going to take me longer to digest the maths so i may come back to you on that(or one of the more clever people might do it first)But on a quick skim i understand the under 8% loan will return a flat 4% but am still confused as to a 5.5% loan that i have pays me as much as the 7.99% loan i have.Think i need to read more Thanks macq, not a problem and thanks for the feedback. And yes, that's right you'd get 4% for both. We want to keep the product attractive for investors by maintaining a good amount of loans on the platform, and wouldn't want these to earn investors below 4%. The result is that there are some loans in the loan book where we make a significantly smaller margin (in some cases, close to zero).
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Post by octopusjoe on Feb 15, 2018 11:45:57 GMT
I wanted also to point everyone in the direction of this recent blog post we put together. We thought it would be a good idea in response to the questions we've had about loans that have been put on hold – explaining a bit more about the different types, and what we do as well to help ensure investors are paid what they're owed.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 21, 2018 15:11:02 GMT
... it's worth noting that we will automatically rediversify the portfolio of any investor that has more than 10% of their portfolio in any one loan. One thing to consider is that because this number is so high (esp. when compared to the ~4% interest rate), I am investing money slowly to generate diversification that way. I suspect others are doing the same. If I could set the number myself to 1% or 2%, even with the risk of slower investment and money earning no return, I would invest more.
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Post by d_saver on Feb 22, 2018 10:14:11 GMT
I wanted also to point everyone in the direction of this recent blog post we put together. We thought it would be a good idea in response to the questions we've had about loans that have been put on hold – explaining a bit more about the different types, and what we do as well to help ensure investors are paid what they're owed. Thanks for listening to investors and making changes to the site. A step in the right direction. A plus is my late payments have also reduced over the last week
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puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Feb 22, 2018 11:29:03 GMT
The improvements to the site are quite noticeable, finally the 'open loans' on the statistics page seems to be more useful as the list has been pruned to just show actually open loans you can invest in, rather than a huge list.
It's a shame it's taken them so long to get the basics right - we had the purple horror redesign several months back which just looked ugly which serving no useful functional purpose - hate seeing businesses waste time on aesthetics when in many ways the site was functionally deficient, the recent changes are a much needed improvement.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 22, 2018 12:25:58 GMT
the layout seem better and any info is useful but can't see any details of what is happening with the recovery process with regards the late loans (unless i am missing it) which would be helpful.But notice my total loans do not match my performing/late details so may need looking at again-hopefully the missing loans are the performing ones
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