justme
Member of DD Central
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Post by justme on Feb 27, 2018 8:46:41 GMT
dare I say if sticking to this view then no investments are to be done. How do I know my investments in S&S exist as thy are just a numbers on the screen of a platform website? Or p2p the same ? That is why it was so psychologically difficult for me to start investing.
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sussexlender
Member of DD Central
Cheat seeking missile
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Post by sussexlender on Feb 27, 2018 10:43:30 GMT
Buildings projects can be visited by the investor to check on progress; companies have products you can see in the shops or on the road etc; commodities are stored in depots / markets that can be inspected etc.
It depends on how much research an investor wants to do or effort to check out the site etc.
Best of luck with all your investments. SXLR
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bg
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Post by bg on Feb 27, 2018 11:17:01 GMT
Yet the money keeps flowing into FC.
Since the switch to the new 'black box' system the total loan book of partial loans (ie retail investors) has risen by around £100m (which is around 15%) and whole loans (institutional) has risen by around £200m (over 20%).
I hate the changes and am running down my (once significant) portfolio but until investors en masse vote with their feet there is no chance of things changing.
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markr
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Post by markr on Feb 27, 2018 18:24:29 GMT
...until investors en masse vote with their feet there is no chance of things changing. Why should we (and why should they)? 7-ish percent target rate, excellent diversification, fee-free sellout in a highly liquid secondary market, no effort on my part, from a well established successful platform. You might not like it but, as your figures show, plenty of people do. The target return may be a tad optimistic, but it has to fall a fair way to reach, IMO, its nearest rival, Assetz GBBA2 (and if FC fail to reach their target there's a good chance Assetz will too).
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 27, 2018 18:38:42 GMT
Yep, whats not to like, you just bung your money in, its lent out quickly and you get diversification to 0.5% and 6% to 7%pa. Transferring from ZOPA and RS just as soon as the repayments come in. IF AC ever get to FC scale and can provide the same diversification levels I would go there, but until then... You can always go to FundingSecure - they'll provide all the sleepless nights you desire  |
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bg
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Post by bg on Feb 27, 2018 19:13:24 GMT
...until investors en masse vote with their feet there is no chance of things changing. Why should we (and why should they)? 7-ish percent target rate, excellent diversification, fee-free sellout in a highly liquid secondary market, no effort on my part, from a well established successful platform. You might not like it but, as your figures show, plenty of people do. The target return may be a tad optimistic, but it has to fall a fair way to reach, IMO, its nearest rival, Assetz GBBA2 (and if FC fail to reach their target there's a good chance Assetz will too). Did I say you should? I'm just responding to a thread entitled 'I'm outta here" to posts by dozens of people saying they are leaving because their returns are not very good by saying FC won't change the process unless lenders vote with their feet - which they clearly aren't From a personal perspective I am concerned that there has been either a weakening of underwriting standards or more smaller companies are struggling than the economic numbers are showing. I have been a heavy user of FC since 2012 and I have seen a significant increase (and I mean significant) in defaults since May/June last year with a worrying increase in very early defaults. On top of this I have seen a surge in processing, late and downgraded loans - bear in mind these aren't displayed on users Summary pages, you can only get this data by drilling down into your loan parts which is a fag. For me these unsellable loans now account for 12% of my portfolio and many of them are likely to end up as further defaults (some of my late loans have been late for over 6 months!). I firmly believe that if this data was more visible people would be panicking and withdrawing at a faster rate. Right now I would say 95% of investors don't even know a significant portion of their loan book is distressed and unsellable. Over the last 6 months my annual rate of return is well below FC's advertised rate - and that isn't taking into consideration any of the late loans which are sure to lead to more losses. I may well just be unlucky but I have a well diversified portfolio of 430 (undefaulted) loans and has lead to me running down my book. I'm not outright selling just yet but if things continue in this fashion I may well do so. I have also stopped recommending FC as a liquid place to park funds while returning 7% pa. Good luck to you though.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 27, 2018 19:19:40 GMT
No one gets the advertised return on any platform, with the possible exception of RS and even there you have significant cash drag to achieve decent returns. I agree we are beginning to see increased delinquencies in both consumer and SME markets. But we’ve all made hay the last ten years so have a plump cushion for the inevitable one or two year downturn that can’t be far away.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 27, 2018 19:40:33 GMT
It's the owners who decide where in the market a platform should fit as it matures, not the lenders. FC have decided to be bank-like, and to offer 7% with no effort, excellent liquidity and very low platform risk. That has always been their clear intention. We take it or leave it. Some of my cash is suited to FC as a 'bread and butter' site and will stay, but most of it is 'outta here' chasing better returns. As for making a contribution to mainstream p2p - FC is a huge part.
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Feb 27, 2018 20:26:01 GMT
I've watched my return slide from 10%+ and then down the 'nines' in recent times. The slide continues to now stand at 8.7%. What this means is that I am really not earning much at all, or even anything, any more. My current 'earnings' are living off the profits of yesterday. Thus I am currently selling up, and indeed plan to be soon 'outta here'.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 27, 2018 22:05:07 GMT
Where to kaya?
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justme
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Post by justme on Feb 27, 2018 22:56:44 GMT
Buildings projects can be visited by the investor to check on progress; companies have products you can see in the shops or on the road etc; commodities are stored in depots / markets that can be inspected etc. It depends on how much research an investor wants to do or effort to check out the site etc. Best of luck with all your investments. SXLR and if the projects not progressing then what can be done? at the end of the day one clicks on sn icon on a website and moves money. One has no guarantees that money goes to the intended destination, that intended destination is not a fraud or even legitimate but extremely risky investment (apart from opinion of people on the internet forums or books) ? and how is one going to inspect commodities and ehat that inspection will tell them ?
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Post by Proptechfish on Mar 10, 2018 14:37:17 GMT
I've watched my return slide from 10%+ and then down the 'nines' in recent times. The slide continues to now stand at 8.7%. What this means is that I am really not earning much at all, or even anything, any more. My current 'earnings' are living off the profits of yesterday. Thus I am currently selling up, and indeed plan to be soon 'outta here'. Surely if you were seeing returns of 10% + you had a significant high risk bias ? Which would drag returns down over time as defaults were realised ? I've been on FC 18 months, moderate investment, 6.8% return (which has gone up marginally in the last few months), not a single default or late payment so far, other than a couple of 'C's i have all 'B's and above It is sad to hear others are having bad experiences, but considering the size of FC (operates in 4 countries), the private/government financial backing it has, the track record and my own personal experiences, FC personal gives me least concern out of all my investments right now. I am a little concerned though why there seems to be such a disparity in experiences, is it just luck ? Plus their main stream push is making me a little more wary
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 10, 2018 16:56:31 GMT
Buildings projects can be visited by the investor to check on progress; companies have products you can see in the shops or on the road etc; commodities are stored in depots / markets that can be inspected etc. It depends on how much research an investor wants to do or effort to check out the site etc. Best of luck with all your investments. SXLR and if the projects not progressing then what can be done? at the end of the day one clicks on sn icon on a website and moves money. One has no guarantees that money goes to the intended destination, that intended destination is not a fraud or even legitimate but extremely risky investment (apart from opinion of people on the internet forums or books) ? and how is one going to inspect commodities and ehat that inspection will tell them ? Well, of course we all know that p2p is just an online game, fantasy lending. If we had to use our own real money, from our actual bank accounts, then I don't think we would lend a fraction of what we do. It needs to seem real for us to suspend disbelief - there are some really imaginative projects, defaults, regulators, and even platforms going into administration. The game-masters are very good. It's bad form to undermine the beliefs of the players, and so we should stop this discussion.
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
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Post by coogaruk on Mar 10, 2018 18:03:14 GMT
Well, of course we all know that p2p is just an online game, fantasy lending. If we had to use our own real money, from our actual bank accounts,... If only that were true. You've left me wondering... What money do you lend then and from whose bank account?
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