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Post by hugoarchover on Sept 23, 2014 15:25:11 GMT
We carry out two forms of due diligence.
1. Our own, that’s very strict – we simply don’t put out grade B/C/D risk like most platforms. We only lend to companies at the top of the rating and quite frankly where we would be happy to put our own money. We work face to face with all borrowers, visit premises etc. - our security model simply cannot be viable on small loans.
2. With our various insurers - they use their wealth of underwriting data that makes the usual off the shelf company house/credit agency stuff look out of date and poor. All Borrowers have to be insured. No insurance = no project. 3. We monitor all securities like Accounts Receivable and make sure the ARs are at 125% of the loan amount.
However, there is always risk. For example you cannot insure against fraud, but insurance companies have traditionally been very good at spotting it in this type of insurance. With our personal touch it’s about as safe as we believe Crowdlending can be.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Sept 24, 2014 7:47:25 GMT
The KYC document demands far more information than in my experience is usual.
I have various bank and other financial accounts and lend though a number of p2p sites including AC, TC, W, FC, FK and have never been asked for this level of personal information.
Usually these days AML can be conducted automatically online, so one wonders who are these people, why do they need this detail, will it be confidential (particularly given the offshore outside EU software development), and do I really want to get involved?
Presumably the concept is that Archover decides how much each investor should be allowed to invest, seemingly implying a high level of risk, but at the same time trumpeting a secure place to lend, fully insured loans with only the highest rated borrowers so that PGs are not required.
Without returning the form one cannot even peruse the market.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Sept 24, 2014 8:41:46 GMT
The KYC document demands far more information than in my experience is usual. I have various bank and other financial accounts and lend though a number of p2p sites including AC, TC, W, FC, FK and have never been asked for this level of personal information. Usually these days AML can be conducted automatically online, so one wonders who are these people, why do they need this detail, will it be confidential (particularly given the offshore outside EU software development), and do I really want to get involved? Presumably the concept is that Archover decides how much each investor should be allowed to invest, seemingly implying a high level of risk, but at the same time trumpeting a secure place to lend, fully insured loans with only the highest rated borrowers so that PGs are not required. Without returning the form one cannot even peruse the market. Agreed - IMO it appears that Archover simply do not understand your 'traditional' P2P investor. The KYC requirement is no doubt being driven by their interpretation of FCA requirements and is far too intrusive. The old joke - if you ask an FCA compliance 'expert' for an opinion in the morning it will be totally different to the one you receive in the afternoon. So not for me. Sorry guys but if you are serious about the P2P/P2B market then I suggest you re-look at your KYC form. Is it really necessary to have that much detail plus a signed passport photo??
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Sept 24, 2014 10:53:16 GMT
Earlier on this thread Archover said we are changing the process very soon to do exactly what you suggest i.e. enable users to complete a short, sharp registration process which will enable them to have a nose about and then go through full registration if you want to go further.
Which we all seem to agree is sine qua non doncha know?
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Post by hugoarchover on Sept 24, 2014 11:08:17 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. Let me try and clear up the confusion. AML
All sites, banks etc. will carry out AML. As you rightly point out many of them do so automatically and in fact we will be moving to a fully automated system shortly. You correctly point out that this is where other P2P and P2B platforms, banks, financial accounts stop. Our Crowd
We are dealing with quite large loans starting at £150,000 and some well into the millions. Our target ‘Crowd‘ are institutions, hedge funds, family offices, corporates and private investors. On average our Crowd invests in chunks of £25,000 or more per project. For the private investor element of our crowd, despite all our innovative security and insurance wrappers, we think (not a legal requirement) that these sorts of large investments are best suited to High Net Worth individuals (HNWs) and/or Sophisticated Investors. Having made that decision we need to validate people are HNW/Sophisticated investors. We adhere to FCA requirements (like an IFA would) and request a KYC to be filled out and keep this on file. I hope that helps explain the extra ‘paperwork’ on our site. Steerpike - We never offer any advice. We only validate an individual qualifies as an HNW/Sophisticated investor. What they do after that on the platform is entirely their choice. bugs4me – We are serious about this market. We believe that the very small company market is well served by the model used by the likes of FC, though we do worry about default rates becoming an issue. We have decided to target a smaller Crowd with a higher value. I hope that helps
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Sept 24, 2014 13:31:27 GMT
We have decided to target a smaller Crowd with a higher value.
The In crowd
When are you going to make the site available for inspection without the rigmarole? In particular I'm pretty narked to have given bank details and dob as part of the initial step and got no access at all. I've definitely shown you mine but you still won't show me yours.
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Post by hugoarchover on Sept 24, 2014 14:17:41 GMT
Note on off shore development ( Steerpike ). Our technical solutions partner is Swedish (clients like SAS, TNS) with development personnel based in India, their technical and security build development is without question exemplary. We also have an in-house technical team in the UK All servers and personal data are based/held within the EU as required by law
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Post by hugoarchover on Sept 24, 2014 14:26:04 GMT
shimselfIn response to your query - we understand where you are coming from but at the moment you will only be able to see what is on the platform by filling in your KYC. However as we have previously mentioned this is changing and you can expect to see the changes ASAP in the coming weeks. I shall alert you as and when this is the case.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Sept 24, 2014 14:28:35 GMT
Whilst KYC may be an important requirement of the FCA it is being incorrectly interpreted by many firms. In the case of Archover, I fail to see why you would require a 'clear' copy of what appears to be both my passport and driving licence in addition to my NI number.
Also you require my (deceased) father's name, copies of two recent utility bills and a separate signed passport sized photo. My personal income, my personal assets, etc also required. I am not suggesting that your intentions are anything but honourable but I would question what guarantees are there that this highly sensitive information would remain confidential. Of course with so many reported instances of data loss the answer must be that you are unable to give any such cast iron guarantee.
If you can point me to the relevant FCA link which requires you to gather this information then I stand to be corrected and apologise. However ATM it appears you are being misguided in your lender detail requirements by whoever is responsible for FCA compliance.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Sept 24, 2014 15:25:26 GMT
The "traditional p2p lender" is probably used to diversification as a method of minimising loss perhaps backed by provision funds or the like, security against assets, and PGs.
The Archover proposal seems to be that one may confidently invest larger sums in perhaps fewer loans because borrowers (and it seems lenders) have been carefully vetted and loans are insured.
Probably, insurers will not pay out under certain circumstances, perhaps fraud for example, and my experience over the last few years is that many of the significant losses incurred on other platforms appeared to involve what might be called suspicious circumstances.
Alternatively, perhaps member of the "In Crowd" typically invest £25k in at least 50 loans maintaining diversification by investing £1.25m or more.
This club may be too exclusive for me.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Sept 24, 2014 15:34:18 GMT
More grief old boy, sorry
The first signup allows me to live overseas (a scrolldown list of all the countries in the EU it looks like) the pdf tells me I have to be UK resident, which I'm not
say pip pip to the boffins and ask them to have a little thinkypoo would you mind?
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Post by elljay on Sept 24, 2014 16:51:25 GMT
More grief old boy, sorry The first signup allows me to live overseas (a scrolldown list of all the countries in the EU it looks like) the pdf tells me I have to be UK resident, which I'm not say pip pip to the boffins and ask them to have a little thinkypoo would you mind? shimself, are you having a bad week?
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Post by tybalt on Sept 25, 2014 17:30:59 GMT
I received the full pack to compete two days ago.
1. I need an up to date passport photograph something I no longer maintain a stock of. When I travelled in the Middle East and when I lived in France I expected to need dozens on them a year and therefore kept a stock.
2. The pack cannot be completed on line. You need to print it then, fill it in then presumably scan it.
Even if I had been prepared to drop everything I still would not have caught the post in time to avoid computer generated "NDA Not Received - Reminder1 "
As above I wanted to discover what you had to offer before committing funds. I will probably compete the registration process but in my own good time
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 25, 2014 19:51:14 GMT
As merely an observer, dont consider myself HNW, though I have been certified as Sophisticated (unbelieveably) by another platform (no paperwork), so not likely to use Archover currently, two points spring to mind
Wellesley, who have completed the largest P2P loan to date (8 million +), dont seem to require all this information to lend, let alone poke around the site.
As the KYC document would appear to be an identity thief's wet dream, it presumably would have to be returned by insured mail, placing a cost on just having a look at the proposition offered.
Be interested to see your proposition when P2P ISA legislation get sorted out, assuming you go down that route
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Post by hugoarchover on Sept 26, 2014 16:25:23 GMT
The platform is being updated and changed and this will not only allow people to view projects and have a look around with out completing full registration but will also require the input of less details when registering. In addition to this we are making changes in regards to the KYC forms that will massively facilitate the process.
Thank you for all your questions and queries.
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