Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Mar 19, 2018 16:29:07 GMT
Am I missing something? Zoopla estimate is about £230k, others the same on the same street are selling for in excess of £200k so there'd have to be major issues to not recover the £138k. You would make a good RICS surveyor 😂 There is a similar house for sale at £160k, although thanks to the valued, we have idea if this is bigger or smaller! www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-71887274.htmlso that's offers over £160k and IMO doesn't have the same 'kerb appeal' (looks ex council?) or a have a garage etc. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. As far as p2p loans go, it looks a good one to me. This looks a better comparison www.rightmove.co.uk/s6p/71518853Put it this way, based on the information I Have, if it defaults I'll buy it at auction for £150k unless it's subsiding
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Mar 19, 2018 16:50:52 GMT
so that's offers over £160k and IMO doesn't have the same 'kerb appeal' (looks ex council?) or a have a garage etc. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. As far as p2p loans go, it looks a good one to me. This looks a better comparison www.rightmove.co.uk/s6p/71518853Put it this way, based on the information I Have, if it defaults I'll buy it at auction for £150k unless it's subsiding Ours has rot, needs new electrics, central heating, renovating and decorating😆 I do agree with you that there is enough equiity if it defaults for full recovery, but I can't see the property being worth the valuation in its present state, newly refurbished, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Mar 19, 2018 17:01:30 GMT
so that's offers over £160k and IMO doesn't have the same 'kerb appeal' (looks ex council?) or a have a garage etc. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. As far as p2p loans go, it looks a good one to me. This looks a better comparison www.rightmove.co.uk/s6p/71518853Put it this way, based on the information I Have, if it defaults I'll buy it at auction for £150k unless it's subsiding Ours has rot, needs new electrics, central heating, renovating and decorating😆 I do agree with you that there is enough equiity if it defaults for full recovery, but I can't see the property being worth the valuation in its present state, newly refurbished, maybe. Forgive me for not calling this one 'ours', I am reluctant to become overly attached to it. The rot only concerns the detached garage woodwork, 35 year old electrics would in theory only need a new con unit and supplementary earthing upgrade. The central heating would again mostly be a replacement boiler and new radiators. House buyers rarely look beyond the decor, and patently surveyors even less. Having said that the current valuation is obviously high, when are they not?
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 2,987
|
Post by michaelc on Mar 19, 2018 17:14:19 GMT
I think in "normal" times, this would have gone within minutes. I think folk are being particularly careful right now due to col.
|
|
Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Mar 19, 2018 17:26:51 GMT
so that's offers over £160k and IMO doesn't have the same 'kerb appeal' (looks ex council?) or a have a garage etc. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. As far as p2p loans go, it looks a good one to me. This looks a better comparison www.rightmove.co.uk/s6p/71518853Put it this way, based on the information I Have, if it defaults I'll buy it at auction for £150k unless it's subsiding Ours has rot, needs new electrics, central heating, renovating and decorating😆 I do agree with you that there is enough equiity if it defaults for full recovery, but I can't see the property being worth the valuation in its present state, newly refurbished, maybe. Yes, the valuation is a joke but TBH I've checked the Zoopla estimate (about £230k) so there's plenty of room for error. I'd rather lend at 65% residential than say 40% on anything weird and wonderful... like castles and half finished holiday parks
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Mar 19, 2018 17:28:41 GMT
Ours has rot, needs new electrics, central heating, renovating and decorating😆 I do agree with you that there is enough equiity if it defaults for full recovery, but I can't see the property being worth the valuation in its present state, newly refurbished, maybe. Yes, the valuation is a joke but TBH I've checked the Zoopla estimate (about £230k) so there's plenty of room for error. I'd rather lend at 65% residential than say 40% on anything weird and wonderful... like castles and half finished holiday parks Totally agree.
|
|
adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,920
Likes: 4,145
|
Post by adrian77 on Mar 19, 2018 18:01:12 GMT
Agree but what concerns me was a combination of the renovation work needed and the possibility there was or could be a problem tenant in the house. As I have said before I buy and sell distressed properties and pay nowhere near the estate agent's market valuation. Not the worst loan on the block but lack of info for me to risk my shekels.
That said looks a better bet than some other recent property loans!
|
|
mason
Member of DD Central
Posts: 666
Likes: 641
|
Post by mason on Mar 19, 2018 18:05:52 GMT
The valuation can be worked out by inspecting the property or by taking the amount the borrower needs and working backwards to the target LTV.
In any case, this one looked to me to be one of the lesser outrageous propositions and as such I took a small slice. Perhaps I'm out of my mind, but the worst case here looks better than a lot of others that spring to mind.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 19, 2018 23:09:44 GMT
Am I missing something? Zoopla estimate is about £230k, others the same on the same street are selling for in excess of £200k so there'd have to be major issues to not recover the £138k. Arguably you would need to sell in the region of £155,000 to cover capital, interest and associated fees. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. Badly Drawn Stickman and Jeepers : It looks to me as if you are presuming the property would be sold after six months, i.e. as soon as the borrower doesn't repay the loan at the end of the term. IMHO, that's incredibly overoptimistic. Based on what I've seen happen on other loans -- at FS and on other platforms -- the reality is likely to look more like... - Firstly, there will be a delay while the borrower claims they'll pay the interest and renew the loan, or that they're working on a refinance.
- It would be a few months, at best, before FS would be convinced that the borrower is making so little progress that they need to appoint receivers.
- once appointed, the receivers will take a couple of months to put together their proposed plan of action.
- The property would go on the market and stay there for a minimum of 2-3 months.
- Potential buyers will know that it's receivers selling the property, so any offers received will be at quite a discount from the actual 'market value'.
- If no acceptable offers are received, a decision will be taken to put the property up for auction.
- There will be a month or two delay waiting for an appropriate auction.
- With a bit of luck, the bidding will reach the reserve price, and the buyer will then have a month to complete the sale.
- (If the reserve isn't reached, go back a couple steps and wait for another auction...
I'd guess the whole process would take about a year after the loan matures, so instead of needing a sale at £155-160k for a full recovery of the £138k loan, it would require a sale for more like £200k, especially as there will have extra costs mounting up during the process.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this is a bad loan. I've put some money into it myself. But I feel that if the borrower doesn't repay it will be a struggle to make a full recovery. I'm hoping that recovery of all capital would be possible.
|
|
Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Mar 20, 2018 0:39:18 GMT
mikes1531 of course there is an element of risk attached as with all p2p loans at 12%. However, even based on your estimation of £200k needed to recoup default interest, that still shouldn't be to big an ask considering the sale price of others. worst case scenario looks about as good as you could expect on a 12% P2P loan. Show me anything offering 12% that looks a safer bet.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 20, 2018 0:48:23 GMT
However, even based on your estimation of £200k needed to recoup default interest, that still shouldn't be to big an ask considering the sale price of others. Having read the VR, I got the impression that a fair amount of refurbishment/updating would be required to bring this property up to the standard of the others for which there are recently sold prices available. Hence, I didn't think it would be easy to achieve similar prices. But that's JMHO.
|
|
lucky
Member of DD Central
Posts: 79
Likes: 46
|
Post by lucky on Mar 20, 2018 0:49:19 GMT
mikes1531 of course there is an element of risk attached as with all p2p loans at 12%. However, even based on your estimation of £200k needed to recoup default interest, that still shouldn't be to big an ask considering the sale price of others. Show me anything offering 12% interest that looks a safer bet. Totally agree, I’m in.
|
|
|
Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Mar 20, 2018 9:38:30 GMT
Arguably you would need to sell in the region of £155,000 to cover capital, interest and associated fees. If our property fetched anything close to offers over £160k, we'd still recover 100%. Badly Drawn Stickman and Jeepers : It looks to me as if you are presuming the property would be sold after six months, i.e. as soon as the borrower doesn't repay the loan at the end of the term. IMHO, that's incredibly overoptimistic. Based on what I've seen happen on other loans -- at FS and on other platforms -- the reality is likely to look more like... - Firstly, there will be a delay while the borrower claims they'll pay the interest and renew the loan, or that they're working on a refinance.
- It would be a few months, at best, before FS would be convinced that the borrower is making so little progress that they need to appoint receivers.
- once appointed, the receivers will take a couple of months to put together their proposed plan of action.
- The property would go on the market and stay there for a minimum of 2-3 months.
- Potential buyers will know that it's receivers selling the property, so any offers received will be at quite a discount from the actual 'market value'.
- If no acceptable offers are received, a decision will be taken to put the property up for auction.
- There will be a month or two delay waiting for an appropriate auction.
- With a bit of luck, the bidding will reach the reserve price, and the buyer will then have a month to complete the sale.
- (If the reserve isn't reached, go back a couple steps and wait for another auction...
I'd guess the whole process would take about a year after the loan matures, so instead of needing a sale at £155-160k for a full recovery of the £138k loan, it would require a sale for more like £200k, especially as there will have extra costs mounting up during the process.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this is a bad loan. I've put some money into it myself. But I feel that if the borrower doesn't repay it will be a struggle to make a full recovery. I'm hoping that recovery of all capital would be possible.
A 25% 'platform incompetence levy' might well be in order whilst doing due diligence. I have a full week of experience of using FS so am probably not well placed to judge (I have however followed their progress on here for some time). My contribution was a self serving attempt to encourage a return to the levels of DD this platform is capable of achieving, especially with the advent of DDc. Even with the very small amount of information that was supplied, i'm pretty sure the right people on here could have discovered the owners identity and background and probably have traced their family tree back ten generations.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Mar 20, 2018 10:34:27 GMT
Badly Drawn Stickman and Jeepers : It looks to me as if you are presuming the property would be sold after six months, i.e. as soon as the borrower doesn't repay the loan at the end of the term. IMHO, that's incredibly overoptimistic. Based on what I've seen happen on other loans -- at FS and on other platforms -- the reality is likely to look more like... - Firstly, there will be a delay while the borrower claims they'll pay the interest and renew the loan, or that they're working on a refinance.
- It would be a few months, at best, before FS would be convinced that the borrower is making so little progress that they need to appoint receivers.
- once appointed, the receivers will take a couple of months to put together their proposed plan of action.
- The property would go on the market and stay there for a minimum of 2-3 months.
- Potential buyers will know that it's receivers selling the property, so any offers received will be at quite a discount from the actual 'market value'.
- If no acceptable offers are received, a decision will be taken to put the property up for auction.
- There will be a month or two delay waiting for an appropriate auction.
- With a bit of luck, the bidding will reach the reserve price, and the buyer will then have a month to complete the sale.
- (If the reserve isn't reached, go back a couple steps and wait for another auction...
I'd guess the whole process would take about a year after the loan matures, so instead of needing a sale at £155-160k for a full recovery of the £138k loan, it would require a sale for more like £200k, especially as there will have extra costs mounting up during the process.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting this is a bad loan. I've put some money into it myself. But I feel that if the borrower doesn't repay it will be a struggle to make a full recovery. I'm hoping that recovery of all capital would be possible.
A 25% 'platform incompetence levy' might well be in order whilst doing due diligence. I have a full week of experience of using FS so am probably not well placed to judge (I have however followed their progress on here for some time). My contribution was a self serving attempt to encourage a return to the levels of DD this platform is capable of achieving, especially with the advent of DDc. Even with the very small amount of information that was supplied, i'm pretty sure the right people on here could have discovered the owners identity and background and probably have traced their family tree back ten generations. The points outlined by mikes1531 seems to be the normal route that FS take in my experience. Simply refer to the Welsh hotel loan which is creeping up to a 1000 day loan.
A property just 2 doors away sold for 208k last year and appeared in good condition. Allowing for the normal FS inertia, auctions fees, other fees, etc, etc and bearing in mind the points made by adrian77 who is actively involved in development then I think you may be out by several percent with your 25%.
It's not helped by a single page valuation - all done on the cheap. But as FS eventually get everything funded then why not cut corners??
|
|
Jeepers
Member of DD Central
Posts: 818
Likes: 721
|
Post by Jeepers on Sept 22, 2019 23:32:56 GMT
Update: 06/09/2019 We have seen evidence that the second property is being marketed, however we cannot provide a marketing link due to the property being a residential home. We are in contact with the borrower and have asked for further evidence that progress is being made. We have made it clear that significant progress needs to be made as the loan is overdue. We will continue to work with the borrower, however we can still take further action if we deem this the best option.
Sounds like BS.. we have the full address anyway so why not show a link of the ad?
Nothing on Rightmove or Zoopla 🧐
|
|