alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Oct 20, 2018 8:21:49 GMT
Steve, thanks for showing interest and taking the time to respond. I would rather have the discussion on this site for two reasons 1) it is good to read the experience and feedback from other users and 2) anonymity.
As I have previously stated I have had a positive experience on Bondmason in terms of liquidity, rate of return and communication, my concern is with the number of loans listed on my watchlist (now more than 100) and more than 40 loans listed under recovery (which I understand to mean default). I am willing to list the loan numbers, if I am proved to be incorrect I will be the first to apologise on this forum. I would be interested in the views of other BM users visa vie watchlist/recovery.
I have a substantial investment in BM which I intend to continue with.
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Post by stevefindlay on Oct 20, 2018 11:22:34 GMT
alibaba what I would like to know from your account is: - What are the loan references and receivable references in each case - How much is showing in the 'amount held' column for each - What is your overall account balance - What is your history of withdrawals and deposits - What is your total net return to date - What is your diversification setting, and have you changed this at any time I may have some follow up questions depending on the answers to the above. I respect your desire for anonymity. It just makes the review much harder to do / slower. (With your account number I can process all of the above much easier with the tools we use in house). My suspicion is that many of the loan rows showing on your watch list / recovery paid, have been diversified down over time, and so (1) the amount held will be small in many cases and (2) the loans are essentially the same / linked - we don't have that many loans on the watch list / recovery. Most importantly, I want to understand if the loan allocation algorithm has made any mistakes, to ensure you aren't overexposed to any of the same loans.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Oct 20, 2018 13:55:54 GMT
This is much more complicated than I realised, taking into account the questions that you have raised it is now obvious that many of these loans are linked, diversified and in a number of cases with small amounts allocated, I have in the past changed the diversification settings.
The numbers I have quoted are still listed on my watchlist and recovery, I would suggest that in time the dashboard shows a summary that clearly indicates the value of loans on the watchlist and in recovery, on a rolling or monthly basis.
I apologise for my lack of understanding of the workings of the web site and I appreciate the time that you have taken to explain the situation. I will continue to invest in BM
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Post by stevefindlay on Oct 21, 2018 18:55:49 GMT
alibaba - certainly no need to apologise. Our challenge is to make the service simpler and more intuitive. Whilst enabling clients to continue to achieve the same attractive risk-adjusted returns. We've got some stuff in the pipeline...and thank you for your suggestions.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Oct 22, 2018 11:15:09 GMT
I have a concern over the recovery status because I've seen on individual platforms that this can take years. I think that this is something that could be discussed here, where many p2p investors would equate default status with great uncertainty.
I personally have two different 'platforms in administration' in my recovery list, one which might equate with COL, the other is referred to in the status of loans in recovery, much more recently this year - any ideas anyone? Is there a financier which BM has an arrangement with but which individuals can't invest through - is it one of those?
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Oct 25, 2018 12:10:40 GMT
alibaba - certainly no need to apologise. Our challenge is to make the service simpler and more intuitive. Whilst enabling clients to continue to achieve the same attractive risk-adjusted returns. We've got some stuff in the pipeline...and thank you for your suggestions. One thing which would make life simpler (mine at least) would be to either show totals on the Watchlist and Recovery pages. If that is not possible (and I have asked for it on several occasions in the past) then a downloadable version into a spreadsheet would be a decent option.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Oct 26, 2018 4:38:35 GMT
Entirely agree, if not possible on a running basis at least show the totals at the end of every month.
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gnasher
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Post by gnasher on Nov 13, 2018 21:09:22 GMT
From Sept '17 to Sept'18 my capital deployment was as good as I could hope for. While it occasionally dipped it quickly recovered. However from Sept '18 till now it has been consistently bad, often below 95% and now it has fallen below 90%. I do not like having £8k sitting around doing nothing.
Is this the new normal or can we expect to see an improvement?
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Post by eascogo on Nov 13, 2018 21:50:39 GMT
From Sept '17 to Sept'18 my capital deployment was as good as I could hope for. While it occasionally dipped it quickly recovered. However from Sept '18 till now it has been consistently bad, often below 95% and now it has fallen below 90%. I do not like having £8k sitting around doing nothing.
Is this the new normal or can we expect to see an improvement?
My investment over the last 4 weeks has also been hovering at around the 90% level. But there have been long periods (Apr2017 to March2018) at near 100% level. You can't win all of the time. My setting is at 1% diversification and my return today shows as 7.52%. So after fees a 6% return is not that bad.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Nov 13, 2018 21:56:11 GMT
From Sept '17 to Sept'18 my capital deployment was as good as I could hope for. While it occasionally dipped it quickly recovered. However from Sept '18 till now it has been consistently bad, often below 95% and now it has fallen below 90%. I do not like having £8k sitting around doing nothing.
Is this the new normal or can we expect to see an improvement?
My investment over the last 4 weeks has also been hovering at around the 90% level. But there have been long periods (Apr2017 to March2018) at near 100% level. You can't win all of the time. My setting is at 1% diversification and my return today shows as 7.52%. So after fees a 6% return is not that bad. I am at 90% 7.79% before fees
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Post by df on Nov 14, 2018 16:26:21 GMT
From Sept '17 to Sept'18 my capital deployment was as good as I could hope for. While it occasionally dipped it quickly recovered. However from Sept '18 till now it has been consistently bad, often below 95% and now it has fallen below 90%. I do not like having £8k sitting around doing nothing.
Is this the new normal or can we expect to see an improvement?
My investment over the last 4 weeks has also been hovering at around the 90% level. But there have been long periods (Apr2017 to March2018) at near 100% level. You can't win all of the time. My setting is at 1% diversification and my return today shows as 7.52%. So after fees a 6% return is not that bad. If you add cash drag (due to slow allocations) and loans on watchlist and in recovery (which can result in write-off), you might find that your return is lower than 6%. My current figures are 7.72% return, 89% deployment and 5% in recovery. I signed up in January 2017, up until June 2018 deployment was always very close to 100%, since July 2018 it stays between 93% and 89%. I'm a minor investor, so I have another concern - "5k minimum" rule doesn't allow me to withdraw uninvested funds that I could deploy elsewhere. If I keep it as it is as a "long term investment" I doubt I'll be getting 6% return from BM. I'm slowly coming to conclusion that I don't want to be involved in black-box products at the rates below 6% without PF. So I might be considering to liquidate (at the moment it looks like I can withdraw 91.5% of my capital and hope for partial recovery of remaining 8.5%) and redeploy this cash to LW at 6.5%.
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groon
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Post by groon on Nov 14, 2018 16:57:16 GMT
I was feeling a tad sorry for myself but at a shade under 95% invested at a headline 7.9% and with no write-offs (yet) I ought to be happier than some of you. On the other hand, almost 20% of my loans are on watch or in recovery. I like Bondmason but when I can get 6%+ elsewhere AND a provision fund, with minimal cash drag, my loyalty is being tested. I'll give it a little longer, maybe things will pick up.  |
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Nov 14, 2018 18:09:55 GMT
I am also on a watching brief
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Post by df on Nov 14, 2018 21:18:39 GMT
I was feeling a tad sorry for myself but at a shade under 95% invested at a headline 7.9% and with no write-offs (yet) I ought to be happier than some of you. On the other hand, almost 20% of my loans are on watch or in recovery. I like Bondmason but when I can get 6%+ elsewhere AND a provision fund, with minimal cash drag, my loyalty is being tested. I'll give it a little longer, maybe things will pick up. Similarly, I like BM. I think it's a good (and innovative) model, but I'm not sure if it fits my current investment strategy. It would be quite different (at least for me) if BM relaxed £5k minimum and/or introduced "A variable return with any losses shared equally amongst all participants". One of my problems is avoiding radical decisions - I give platforms "a little longer". So far I've learned, I would've been much better off if I went for full exodus from FC and Ly this time last year.
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Post by stevefindlay on Nov 14, 2018 22:40:31 GMT
Thank you for your comments. To assist / chip in:
(1) Deployment: as at this morning we were at 90.2% invested, with a further 4.5% committed (but not yet drawn) and have a good pipeline looking ahead. December is usually quiet for both loans and new investment, so we don't expect a big shift either way.
(2) Return targets: we fully take on board the benefit of everyone getting the average rate of return (and thus share losses, which are at <0.2% pa, <0.4% total). This is in the works.
A provision fund model exists in our bonds, at 2% (5x total losses). These yield 3.35% 1 year and 3.85% pa 3 year, and are ISA eligible.
They won't make you rich, but can protect against inflation, and supplement a balanced portfolio.
(3) Analysing net returns: When looking at net returns, it is really important to look at the risk:
- Our net return has been 6% (after fees, cash drag, losses), with losses at 0.2% pa. 85-90% of loans are secured against UK property, with an average LTV of 56% (max 75%).
- For comparison, as LW is mentioned above (no disrespect to them, we don't do consumer lending), their stats page shows c5% net return, depending on the year, with forecast losses for each cohort at c4-5% (vs c2% at present)
So, if their loss ratio doubled, their net return would be 1-2% pa.
If our loss ratio doubled, our net return would be +5.8%.
If their loss ratio trebled, you would be losing c2-3% pa
If our loss ratio trebled, your net return would be +5.6%
Returns only mean something when you consider the risk (volatility and expected range of outcomes). Be careful when comparing only the net returns across different platforms - it can lead to comparing apples to oranges.
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