Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 14, 2019 11:50:16 GMT
You can only claim an amount up to the amount of P2P interest you receive (ie, 0.0 in the box), but you can carry forward additional losses, to claim in subsequent years, I think up to four years.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 14, 2019 11:59:51 GMT
Yes, 4 years rollover, so claim the ones that qualified earliest first. (Obviously potentially a second oportunity when losses are formally declared by platform rather than self certification)
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Post by wotnot on Oct 14, 2019 13:54:25 GMT
Understood, thanks.
So... Is there a box where the loss amount / amount carried forward should be entered? Or is it just done via SA100 "Any other information"?
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Post by wotnot on Oct 16, 2019 9:59:58 GMT
I just called HMRC and they initially said to put it down as a negative income figure under Other UK Income on SA101 (DISREGARD THIS)... but then called me back with a link to the correct advice: www.gov.uk/guidance/peer-to-peer-lending#claiming-tax-relief-on-unpaid-loans"Any excess relief for peer to peer bad debts available to carry forward does not need to be included on the tax return, but the lender should keep records of any carry forward relief in order to make a correct and complete claim in a tax return for a future period." The above is fairly clear and unambiguous. Where losses exceed income there is nothing to declare (although providing some details under 'Additional Information' would seem advisable.)
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 16, 2019 10:43:01 GMT
I just called HMRC and they said to put it down as a negative income figure under Other UK Income on SA101. Get that in writing.
It is totally contrary to HMRC guidance, tax rules and the Finance Act 2016, section 32, chapter 1A, 412 governing relief.
The law is that relief is deducted from income on the same platform (412A), if insufficient income on that platform in the relevant tax year then sideways relief is avaliable allowing it to be deducted from income on other platforms (412B), if insufficient income under 412A & B then carry forward relief is avaliable
412C Claims for additional relief: carry-forward relief
(1)A person (“L”) may make a claim for relief under this section if—
(a)L is entitled to relief under section 412A in respect of any outstanding amount of the principal of a loan (“the relevant loan”), but
(b)in the tax year in relation to which L is entitled to that relief (“the relevant year”)—
(i)L has no income of the kind mentioned in section 412A(4) or section 412B(3) from which to deduct the outstanding amount, or
(ii)L has insufficient income of that kind to enable the outstanding amount to be deducted in full under those sections.
If you put a negative figure in then you will be deducting relief from non-P2P income which isnt allowed.
Edit Seems I crossed with your edit where someone at HMRC actually knew what they were doing . Worrying.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on Oct 16, 2019 12:49:25 GMT
It is common to get different instructions from different people at HMRC. I was once given some good advice. If you need an answer to something important ask multiple times. Ask the first person the question you have. Ask the second one the question you have, suggesting the answer of the first if different (do not mention this has already been told to you). If there is ambiguity, ask a third person. It really is the only way in so many situations these days with incompetence and arrogance at an all time high.
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Post by wotnot on Oct 16, 2019 17:33:31 GMT
If you need an answer to something important ask multiple times. Ask the first person the question you have. Ask the second one the question you have, suggesting the answer of the first if different (do not mention this has already been told to you). If there is ambiguity, ask a third person. Makes sense. It is of course a shame that this sort of thing should be necessary.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 16, 2019 17:57:16 GMT
Understood, thanks. So... Is there a box where the loss amount / amount carried forward should be entered? Or is it just done via SA100 "Any other information"? I would put somewhere in the notes the amount you are carrying over. I put the amount I am claiming there (I was advised to) and if it exceeded the interest I would add that I was carrying over the difference, so they can check back.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 16, 2019 18:28:00 GMT
VERY good advice sydb, especially regarding, of course, Financial Products and Insurance. I have lost track of the times I have been told something, challenged it, been told again categorically that what I was told is correct, checked again with another who reinforced, and then later it still turned out wrong. Currently in the midst of a Hoo Ha with Hargreaves Lansdown, which I will "Win." Last one, funnily & very surprising enough, was Fundsmith, got an ex gratia from that one. I have never been the sharpest tool in the box, but boy, am I grateful that I did five years in The City which opened my eyes and taught me some very valuable lessons.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on May 6, 2020 17:18:24 GMT
Using these guidelines, various pages: www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/savings-and-investment-manual/saim12200 Can I just treat all my existing Lendy capital losses (no further interest expected!), and apply as much of it as I like for 4 years running against P2P interest earned, and if any of my capital is paid back, I list it as an earning in the year it occurs? Can Lendy administrators not issue some tax statements?
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Post by portlandbill on May 6, 2020 17:46:17 GMT
Can Lendy administrators not issue some tax statements? I'm sure they could - at £500 an hour
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 6, 2020 19:04:14 GMT
Using these guidelines, various pages: www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/savings-and-investment-manual/saim12200 Can I just treat all my existing Lendy capital losses (no further interest expected!), and apply as much of it as I like for 4 years running against P2P interest earned, and if any of my capital is paid back, I list it as an earning in the year it occurs? Can Lendy administrators not issue some tax statements? Follow the advice in SAIM12000. You can claim loans which are article 36h so no model 1 loans You can claim loans where the borrower is in legal recovery, that excludes Lendy being in administration, so most but not all model 2 loans (see my list in OP for those that appear to qualify) The question is can you claim model 2 loans which aren't in legal recovery but where there has been a capital shortfall, this is more difficult. It then comes down to the prospect of further recovery and that probably requires information we don't have. First we don't know if the payments received so far are in full & final settlement or whether their are further funds due. Some loans have deferred payments eg DFL021 where there is a charge on the new owner presumably to cover a deferred payment. Second there is the issue of the funds ringfenced for Lendy that may be due to lenders in full or part dependent on the court directions. Ideally the platform would declare the loss, as Lendy did for DFL025, DFL035, but RSM aren't going to incur unnecessary costs to do that until everything is finalised. The straight answer is if in doubt get advice. Of course none of this is advice Tax statements are available as usual. They just don't include any of the above as Lendy never did so investors always had to make their own determination.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on May 7, 2020 17:27:42 GMT
Can Lendy administrators not issue some tax statements? I'm sure they could - at £500 an hour haha, ah yes.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on May 7, 2020 17:36:20 GMT
Using these guidelines, various pages: www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/savings-and-investment-manual/saim12200 Can I just treat all my existing Lendy capital losses (no further interest expected!), and apply as much of it as I like for 4 years running against P2P interest earned, and if any of my capital is paid back, I list it as an earning in the year it occurs? Can Lendy administrators not issue some tax statements? Follow the advice in SAIM12000. You can claim loans which are article 36h so no model 1 loans You can claim loans where the borrower is in legal recovery, that excludes Lendy being in administration, so most but not all model 2 loans (see my list in OP for those that appear to qualify) The question is can you claim model 2 loans which aren't in legal recovery but where there has been a capital shortfall, this is more difficult. It then comes down to the prospect of further recovery and that probably requires information we don't have. First we don't know if the payments received so far are in full & final settlement or whether their are further funds due. Some loans have deferred payments eg DFL021 where there is a charge on the new owner presumably to cover a deferred payment. Second there is the issue of the funds ringfenced for Lendy that may be due to lenders in full or part dependent on the court directions. Ideally the platform would declare the loss, as Lendy did for DFL025, DFL035, but RSM aren't going to incur unnecessary costs to do that until everything is finalised. The straight answer is if in doubt get advice. Of course none of this is advice Tax statements are available as usual. They just don't include any of the above as Lendy never did so investors always had to make their own determination. Thanks. following SAIM it seemed to say that these capital losses (otherwise what other loss is there in P2P apart from possibly fees?) could be claimed against four years. Most of my loans aren't resolved. General statement, is this is overly complex for relatively low amounts for some people. Big investors, I can see the value difference to HMRC in excluding model 1 claims, but the distinction for some must amount to something that isn't very relevant.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on May 10, 2020 11:35:15 GMT
General statement, is this is overly complex for relatively low amounts for some people For low amounts, imagine you are French. This is not financial advice.
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