IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 23, 2018 17:57:47 GMT
in the instant I realised I had set an offer rather than the intended bid, and as I was immediately clicking through to cancel it, it was taken by someone...
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 8, 2018 14:45:50 GMT
There are bots at work on Ablrate (and Moneything too), it is obvious by similar in humanly quick transactions experienced
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Jun 8, 2018 15:24:55 GMT
Looking all day for cheap offers sorry
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 8, 2018 16:36:43 GMT
If ablrate would fix the 'crossed prices' issue, such that your bid was automatically filled whenever a suitable offer was made (or vice versa) rather than relying on manual 'buy' or 'sell' transactions, then the whole issue of bots would go away.
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Jun 8, 2018 18:17:06 GMT
Very true that’s what should happen in a natural secondary market . Other than that it’s perfect
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Post by ablrate on Jun 19, 2018 13:26:15 GMT
If ablrate would fix the 'crossed prices' issue, such that your bid was automatically filled whenever a suitable offer was made (or vice versa) rather than relying on manual 'buy' or 'sell' transactions, then the whole issue of bots would go away. The only issue is that auto matching doesn't really solve the issue. For example... if you are placing an offer for £100 at 100% and there is a bid for that... why create the offer... why not just hit the bid? If you are bidding for £100 at 100% and there is an offer for that - why not just hit the offer? - or partially if that fits your criteria? Auto matching creates the problem of people saying 'I didn't mean to sell/buy at that price' - we will take a look and think of some solutions
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 19, 2018 13:45:49 GMT
Don't look too hard, please. You have only one request for it, and I prefer the present system and its flexibility. Please do some sort of survey first. Then there is a nagging doubt that such automation might possibly help bot-traders skim the cream, though I am not an expert. I know some who are.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 19, 2018 13:53:31 GMT
I agree. The current system works very well as it is. Please leave it unchanged.
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Jun 19, 2018 13:58:09 GMT
if you are placing an offer for £100 at 100% and there is a bid for that... why create the offer... why not just hit the bid? If you are bidding for £100 at 100% and there is an offer for that - why not just hit the offer? - or partially if that fits your criteria? Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers... +1 for exercising caution when considering changes to the secondary market mechanics. I think it works brilliantly as it is.
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brianlom1
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He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
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Post by brianlom1 on Jun 19, 2018 14:04:47 GMT
The SM works fine for me too, although I can appreciate the reason behind the request this is not a priority for me
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 19, 2018 14:18:33 GMT
If ablrate would fix the 'crossed prices' issue, such that your bid was automatically filled whenever a suitable offer was made (or vice versa) rather than relying on manual 'buy' or 'sell' transactions, then the whole issue of bots would go away. The only issue is that auto matching doesn't really solve the issue. For example... if you are placing an offer for £100 at 100% and there is a bid for that... why create the offer... why not just hit the bid? If you are bidding for £100 at 100% and there is an offer for that - why not just hit the offer? - or partially if that fits your criteria? Auto matching creates the problem of people saying ' I didn't mean to sell/buy at that price' - we will take a look and think of some solutions Indeed - I put in the offer when I mean to put in a bid - before I could retract in (seconds) a bot had bought it. So it could be worse if auto-matching were in place too.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 19, 2018 18:38:56 GMT
Actually it wouldn't be any different .. if you put in an offer at X, and there were already bids of X or better, then it would sell .. no bot required. Right now it'll sell as soon as a bot notices/wants it... and anyone who already had a bid waiting to get filled will just get bypassed by the bot.
Same deal with selling .. if you put a bid in, and someone already had an offer which matches it, why not just close the deal, rather than waiting for someone else to manually (or bot-wise) notice that you badly want it, and sell it to you (maybe at a higher price than the offers which were there).
Yes, you can manually buy/sell against existing offers, if you hover over your keyboard waiting for what you want, but I suspect some folks (or bots) are playing fast and loose with 'open market pricing' .. i.e. Despite my offer to buy oranges at £1, someone is doing a 'quickness of the hand deceives the eye' trade at 75p.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 19, 2018 19:58:38 GMT
…
Yes, you can manually buy/sell against existing offers, if you hover over your keyboard waiting for what you want, but I suspect some folks (or bots) are playing fast and loose with 'open market pricing' .. i.e. Despite my offer to buy oranges at £1, someone is doing a 'quickness of the hand deceives the eye' trade at 75p.
Surely not! Just supposing an Ablrate lender with multiple accounts wished to transfer some loans at 75%, then they would be at severe risk of the patrolling bots, like those tasty hatchling Galapagos iguanas trying to get past the nasty armies of snakes lying in wait in the rocks. For the law abiding Ablrate lenders (all of them) there is the problem that the bid/offer spread can be very large, and even bidside transfers within it (ie at market rate) can be attractive to very fast purchasers. Such transfers are needed. Firstly it's a good idea to purchase all new loans from a non-isa account so as to get the benefit of the instant returns without income tax. And it is also a good idea to purchase SM loans from an ISA account, so that the bought interest is not tax-reported twice. And of course you want to make sure that any loan which might fail (not an experience I have yet had on Ablrate) is in the non-ISA account. ISA accounts are all about tax, and you need to work and transfer quite a bit (at market rate) to keep the isa account full and optimised. Personally I would ban all bots - zap their IP address perhaps, so that sheep may safely graze. I just worry that the more automation there is, and with no transaction charges (thank you), there might be increasing scope for high frequency marginal transactions, which would screw things up for others who are truly digital (ie use their fingers). I cannot quite say what might happen, but have lived through years of bots on FC, where every flaw has been exploited.
Edit: my comments on automation do not apply to the automation of making the monthly repayments. First on the automation list, perhaps.
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Jun 19, 2018 20:43:41 GMT
Terrific secondary market dont change anything.
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Post by samford71 on Jun 19, 2018 21:07:13 GMT
Indeed - I put in the offer when I mean to put in a bid - before I could retract in (seconds) a bot had bought it. So it could be worse if auto-matching were in place too. Not at all. Let's imagine Loan A. The touch is 99.70-100.30 1k x 2k. I put in an offer to sell 10k at 99.70. Clearly what should happen is: 1k is given at 99.70, 99.70 offered in 9k on the follow. That should be be automatic. To stop people placing wrong way orders on the bid or offer side, you simply have a check box that pops up saying "This order is below/at/above the bid/offer (delete as appropriate). You order will be filled immediately. Press yes to continue. No to cancel." Of course this doesn't stop someone putting in a 99.75 offer when they meant to put in a 99.75 bid and getting instantly lifted. But that can happen right now. This is nothing to do with algos, it's just getting rid of an unnecessary step. At the moment it's perfectly possible to arb people. You can put in a 99.60 offer with it bid 99.70 and my algo could lift you, and give the 99.70 bid. You get worse execution, the bidder doesn't get filled. I take 10 cents, risk free. Note I don't run actually run a trading algo on Abl. It's far too small a platform to bother with and my syndicate only has around £225k on the platform. We can't be bothered on platforms where we have less than £1mm. The point, however, is while it's great that Abl actually have a variable priced SM (since only a variable priced SM can possibly make any sense), the functionality is pretty mediocre. There is no ability to set up conditonal bids or offers for example (i.e I'm taken in £5k of loan A at 100.30, please now create a bid in loan B at 99.70 in £5k), no OCO (one cancels other), no iceberg etc. This is not hard functionality to implement. It would reduce the need for so much manual intervention and fiddling around. That may be fine for the retired but for those of us with day jobs we can't hover over the keyboard looking at the Ablrate site. End result Abl get less capital from us period. I know there general attitude on this forum is that anything quantitative or technological is somehow wrong but automation isn't necessarily unfair, it can just mean it's easier.
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