ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on May 29, 2018 16:20:48 GMT
why do AC have these accounts? They make no extra money from the lender/borrowers differential, as that all goes to the PF. So why have these accounts. I love ‘em, but I don’t see the commercial reasoning.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on May 29, 2018 16:29:19 GMT
They attract thousand's of savers, who deposit £millions into these "savings accounts" AC can now use these funds to underwrite new loans, thus saving on traditional u/w fees & those difficult questions on DD & risk/reward/rate. Self funding growth & removing any truly independent oversight is much more profitable & speedy than the traditional, previous underwriting model & must be admired as a triumph of design.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 29, 2018 16:43:32 GMT
Indeed, it was an inspired strategy and the real curiosity is why no other platform has followed in their footsteps.
That said, Funding Circle have achieved a similar result via a different route. (ie. grateful lenders blindly filling new loans at low rates without even understanding where the money is going)
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on May 29, 2018 17:05:49 GMT
There is a risk for AC with these accounts - they only work under normal market conditions. If people decide to withdrawl at once and cannot it will effect confidence.
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capucino
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Post by capucino on May 29, 2018 19:48:27 GMT
AC can also reclaim any excess money from the PF.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on May 30, 2018 8:06:49 GMT
AC can also reclaim any excess money from the PF. I thought not. All excess money is retained by the PF. No?
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capucino
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Post by capucino on May 30, 2018 14:14:15 GMT
AC can also reclaim any excess money from the PF. I thought not. All excess money is retained by the PF. No?
I think I remember reading a post from Chris saying AC can reclaim cash from the pf.
Besides this, it makes sense. Say for example when the GBBA1 is wound down complexly, where do you think the excess cash would go?
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on May 30, 2018 16:43:50 GMT
why do AC have these accounts? They make no extra money from the lender/borrowers differential, as that all goes to the PF. So why have these accounts. I love ‘em, but I don’t see the commercial reasoning. The short version is that AC have re-invented fractional-reserve banking. They offer savers/investors the illusion that their money is available on zero or 30 days' notice (depending on the specific account), when in fact most of it is invested in loans that will take months or years to repay. This illusion is maintained by keeping a fractional reserve in cash which is available to service the anticipated level of withdrawals from the account during the short term. It all goes great, as long as an adequate cash reserve can be maintained so that all withdrawals can in fact be serviced in a timely manner... but if, for any reason, investors' withdrawals get too close to using up the cash reserve, it could potentially become necessary for withdrawals from the QAA and/or 30DAA to be suspended, restricted or rationed in order to avoid the cash reserves falling below the minimum amount necessary for basic operation of the platform. At that point it would likely trigger a problem equivalent to a "run on the bank", as the restrictions would tend to result in "panic" withdrawals (that would not otherwise have been requested) by at least some investors.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 20, 2018 18:29:04 GMT
I think sl75 nice explanation. I've been wondering whether these accounts have the same safety level as the direct investing accounts, if there is an issue in the future. I wish other platforms would offer similar as would allow diversification for those who need it. AC are offering a very good rate for these accounts, wonder how they sustain that when others don't.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 20, 2018 19:55:33 GMT
AC would, I believe, get the PF surplus when the account finally gets wounds up and there's no loans left to worry about (assuming there is surplus). No?
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 20, 2018 20:05:20 GMT
I think sl75 nice explanation. I've been wondering whether these accounts have the same safety level as the direct investing accounts, if there is an issue in the future? See here for an explanation (NB rates have increased since this was written)... www.4thway.co.uk/candid-opinion/assetz-capital-provision-fund-first-use/In summary these accounts have a cash cushion and a PF, neither of which are available when direct, or manual, investing.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 20, 2018 20:17:57 GMT
AC of course seeded the PF in the first place. Can't recall if they have reclaimed that cash yet.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 20, 2018 20:49:42 GMT
Thanks mary. If there's a cash reserve, and a PF, then I wonder where the loss of capital would be, suppose there's the security not being realised at stated value. Could Assetz pull back their original reserve? so a if a bank hasn't enough in the reserve... [https://moneyweek.com/is-fractional-reserve-banking-dangerous/] More like, why/how do they have fscs protection?
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 21, 2018 6:24:35 GMT
Thanks mary . If there's a cash reserve, and a PF, then I wonder where the loss of capital would be, suppose there's the security not being realised at stated value. Could Assetz pull back their original reserve? so a if a bank hasn't enough in the reserve... [https://moneyweek.com/is-fractional-reserve-banking-dangerous/] More like, why/how do they have fscs protection? The cash reserve is to facilitate prompt withdrawals, and is small, so if there is a panic it will fail, this is clearly stated in the T&Cs. If a loan fails, the PF steps in, but only after all other efforts have been exhausted, so if the cash reserve is empty, then some money could be stuck for some time, but due to each investor's money being spread widely this is not a major issue. There is no FSCS protection m hence the rates, and risks, are higher than a normal savings account. As Assetz rates are currently much higher than RS, it's currently the only Platform where I'm increasing my investment.
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Post by jackpease on Jun 21, 2018 6:33:59 GMT
>>>If people decide to withdrawal at once and cannot it will affect confidence. I think that is a when not an if! But as we are all savvy investors we all know that at some point in the cycle there will be a run, and of course as savvy investors we won't turn on Assetz and blame them will we??? Jack P
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