woodland
Member of DD Central
Posts: 95 
Likes: 42
|
Post by woodland on Dec 18, 2017 20:10:08 GMT
This is coming up for renewal tomorrow & at first glance I was interested as the development has already started. Then I thought about
1) Northern Ireland - no experience with how loans have performed there before.
2) Loan is to a company - usual "PG is in place" - not sure it counts for much.
Any thoughts anyone who is already invested in this or otherwise. You've had 6 months to do DD rather than my 10 minutes - are you planning on renewing?
|
|
sirius
Member of DD Central
Posts: 161
Likes: 141
|
Post by sirius on Dec 18, 2017 22:30:26 GMT
It is stated that, "The property is a development site that has full planning in place for the construction of 15 residential dwellings comprising of 1 x detached house, 6 x townhouses and 8x semi-detached houses."
"Construction had already begun on the site with a pair of semi-detached houses already built and one set of foundations for a semi-detached property finished to ground level."
HOWEVER
**Update 18/12/2017**
Work has been on going on the site with the following having been carried out:
Roadway in has been dug out and stoned.
Foundations and footings complete for 4 houses.
Sewer and storm pipes have been laid.
The clients have already pre-sold 2 semi detached and 2 detached houses.
.....................................
What happened to the two semis that were 'built'?
Where has the other detached house appeared from?
I was not in the original loan so can someone who is help me out please?
|
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Dec 18, 2017 22:33:06 GMT
Didn't like the loan first time round, but I'm giving some thought to going into the renewal. Pros a) its the same borrower (different SPV) as the long running NI Property loan series which has been gradually redeeming as properties complete and seems to have run pretty much as expected b) development is now underway so its not just a landbank plot being used to raise finance. Cons a) This SPV is also the borrower for the Rutherglen loan (Scotland) which raises some questions as to geography b) NI which post referendum vote has an inevitable question mark as to the resiliance of the economy to border issues c) The planning applications date back to 2006/7 and are too old to have supporting documents so not able to understand the project, planning conditions etc d) There are no obvious recent planning applications (such as condition discharges, variations etc) Incidently the 2006 planning application reference in the VR is incorrect - subtract 4 from the four digit number so it ends in a 3. Direct links are on DD Central, or search NI Planning although the usefulness of the planning applications for our purposes is limited in this case. |
|
rambler
Member of DD Central
Posts: 69
Likes: 13
|
Post by rambler on Dec 19, 2017 11:11:49 GMT
All went very quickly.
I decided to grab a slice.
|
|
rogerthat
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,048
Likes: 1,994
|
Post by rogerthat on Jun 5, 2018 19:43:14 GMT
Cant find a thread but if there is one... So..hardly flying off the shelf..one MBH and some reasonable MH's but if you take the £150K out the frame then clearly there's not much enthusiasm at present. Looked at the Ruth**glen and less then £5K on the SM so what gives ?  |
|
adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,920
Likes: 4,145
|
Post by adrian77 on Jun 5, 2018 20:49:51 GMT
guess what I am having an Ian Drury moment - hit me with your smutty stick - hit me hard , hit me quick - Hit meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Jun 5, 2018 20:50:39 GMT
Cant find a thread but if there is one... So..hardly flying off the shelf..one MBH and some reasonable MH's but if you take the £150K out the frame then clearly there's not much enthusiasm at present. Looked at the Ruth**glen and less then £5K on the SM so what gives ? I quite like it as loans go, the associated loans don't appear to be struggling unduly and are arguably at a point that makes this one ready to progress. I won't be investing though, it doesn't fit my current strategy. The bonus offering is always a negative for me, I have no intention of investing those kinds of sums in loans currently, so the SM market disadvantage they create automatically eliminate them for me. Not sure what you mean. As FS bonuses are only paid if you hold the investment all the way to term, the only ones disadvantaged in the SM that I can see are the people investing enough to earn the bonuses, as they'll lose their bonus on anything they do sell.
|
|
woodland
Member of DD Central
Posts: 95
Likes: 42
|
Post by woodland on Jun 5, 2018 21:23:38 GMT
I have added a link on the DD forum. Seems to suggest that an application has been submitted for an ADDITIONAL detached on this site (so that there would be 16 units on the whole site as opposed to the currently approved 15)?? Can anyone clarify?
To me this looks like a reasonable investment, not sure why the uptake has been slow. The implication is that these additional funds will allow the project to complete. It will either do so (& leave a very low LTV) or else additional funds lent should rank behind this loan (I would think).
Tempted to go for a MH shout but will hold fire till tomorrow to see what others think.
Will try to call the architect tomorrow (contact details shown on planning portal).
|
|
|
|
Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 5, 2018 22:02:15 GMT
I quite like it as loans go, the associated loans don't appear to be struggling unduly and are arguably at a point that makes this one ready to progress. I won't be investing though, it doesn't fit my current strategy. The bonus offering is always a negative for me, I have no intention of investing those kinds of sums in loans currently, so the SM market disadvantage they create automatically eliminate them for me. Not sure what you mean. As FS bonuses are only paid if you hold the investment all the way to term, the only ones disadvantaged in the SM that I can see are the people investing enough to earn the bonuses, as they'll lose their bonus on anything they do sell. I work on the principle that if I can see an option so can others. Lets say I wanted to hold £5000 to term, but fancied an extra 2%. I would buy £25000 and immediately put £20000 on the secondary market at par in anticipation of it selling over time yet generating profit in the meantime. That immediately sets the secondary market at par for everybody. Below par for anybody wanting a quick sale.
|
|
|
|
Post by df on Jun 5, 2018 22:30:14 GMT
Not sure what you mean. As FS bonuses are only paid if you hold the investment all the way to term, the only ones disadvantaged in the SM that I can see are the people investing enough to earn the bonuses, as they'll lose their bonus on anything they do sell. I work on the principle that if I can see an option so can others. Lets say I wanted to hold £5000 to term, but fancied an extra 2%. I would buy £25000 and immediately put £20000 on the secondary market at par in anticipation of it selling over time yet generating profit in the meantime. That immediately sets the secondary market at par for everybody. Below par for anybody wanting a quick sale. I'm not sure if you can sell £20000 part of a large property loan at par? Is that possible?
|
|
woodland
Member of DD Central
Posts: 95
Likes: 42
|
Post by woodland on Jun 6, 2018 5:05:52 GMT
guess what I am having an Ian Drury moment - hit me with your smutty stick - hit me hard , hit me quick - Hit meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Please could you elaborate on why this is 'smutty' for you!? 💩 I'm not a developer (which I believe you are), so looking to live & learn! I seem to remember that the first (lesser) offering of this loan went very quickly (anyone remember?).
|
|
adrian77
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,920
Likes: 4,145
|
Post by adrian77 on Jun 6, 2018 6:43:53 GMT
yes I am a small developer - doubtless bigger and more experienced developers on this forum but my opinion for what it's worth is:
Considering the many major FS property disasters I have very little confidence in their valuations and when I see comments such as below I get very worried
i.e. for me personally I am not happy with so much money being borrowed so early on in the project and this looks like borrowing money to repay accrued interest. I am not saying this one is going to be a mega-disaster such as Knaresborough, Wimbledon, Whitehaven etc but I am not risking my money on this one.
|
|
TheDriver
Member of DD Central
Slightly bonkers
Posts: 493
Likes: 190
|
Post by TheDriver on Jun 6, 2018 7:04:31 GMT
I have added a link on the DD forum. Seems to suggest that an application has been submitted for an ADDITIONAL detached on this site (so that there would be 16 units on the whole site as opposed to the currently approved 15)?? Can anyone clarify? To me this looks like a reasonable investment, not sure why the uptake has been slow. The implication is that these additional funds will allow the project to complete. It will either do so (& leave a very low LTV) or else additional funds lent should rank behind this loan (I would think). Tempted to go for a MH shout but will hold fire till tomorrow to see what others think. Will try to call the architect tomorrow (contact details shown on planning portal). Well, firstly with FS recent history - AND being NI - there is bound to be some scepticism! If it is such a good risk as portrayed, why is borrower paying exhorbitant pawn rates? Looking closer there are some anomalies: 1. The first time around it was claimed one pair of semis was completed; now everything's under construction. Were these existing that have been demolished? 2. The ASSETS state pp for 15 dwellings, but only 14 are listed ( 6 + 6 + 2). Maybe the application you have seen is the 15th? 3. This renewal/increase is purported to be to COMPLETE the development. Although noticable progress seems to have been achieved over the past year, it will have to ramp up significantly to achieve that - and sell the result! 4. Assuming the previous loan has been spent, this doesn't seem anything like enough for the remaining build - although I'm not an expert.
My conclusion is: probably a good bet for this time around, but look to get out before too many further tranches are issued.
Not really a very moral approach, so I might swerve entirely.
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Jun 6, 2018 7:29:10 GMT
Well, firstly with FS recent history - AND being NI - there is bound to be some scepticism! If it is such a good risk as portrayed, why is borrower paying exhorbitant pawn rates? Looking closer there are some anomalies: 1. The first time around it was claimed one pair of semis was completed; now everything's under construction. Were these existing that have been demolished? 2. The ASSETS state pp for 15 dwellings, but only 14 are listed ( 6 + 6 + 2). Maybe the application you have seen is the 15th? 3. This renewal/increase is purported to be to COMPLETE the development. Although noticable progress seems to have been achieved over the past year, it will have to ramp up significantly to achieve that - and sell the result! 4. Assuming the previous loan has been spent, this doesn't seem anything like enough for the remaining build - although I'm not an expert. 1. That's a good point, and rather odd. 2. I think this is just Funding Secure's not always top notch mathematics at work. 3, Yup 4. I'm sure you're right that more funds will be required. FS often launch loans like this followed by (sometimes multiple) facilities. That obviously can be a good thing if you can remain in the senior facility (although as with this one, they sometimes close off and renew). Edit: Morals? What are those? 
|
|
|
|
Post by df on Jun 6, 2018 19:54:49 GMT
I'm not sure if you can sell £20000 part of a large property loan at par? Is that possible? Depends if you mean technically or practically, technically I see no reason why not. Practically I would tend to drip feed it in smaller amounts. I could be wrong on the technically, I have not (and am not likely to) tried it. I meant practically. You can't really sell any large property loans without discount. I've been actively selling during the past 12 months or so. In order to sell this type of loans you have to offer them at approximately -0.8%. Drip feeding wouldn't help because your drops will be still sitting at the bottom of the queue. Nobody's going to buy at par when the loan is available at discount.
|
|
