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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 23, 2018 22:26:17 GMT
There would be a fourth who has declared that they have registered. Who has declared a position (admittedly not mine). I suspect however that there will be interested parties, looking to protect their own position that none of us will be aware of and probably have holdings large enough to eliminate anybody who does not represent many smaller investors.
In truth my interest is mainly a learning curve in the workings. I suspect the situation will dictate events, far more than a creditors committee. Hopefully anybody that does get involved would look to keep administration costs down, which is probably the key to better returns.
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investibod
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Post by investibod on Jun 23, 2018 23:44:10 GMT
I have thrown my (very modest) weight behind DI. If we could be certain to have enough combined debt among the members of the forums, I would also have suggested that some of the nominations go to Moorfields. In my dealings with Ed from MoneyThing he has struck me as honest and I believe that his involving Morefields was with investors best interests at heart.
However, each creditor can only nominate one representative, so DI gets my vote.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Jun 24, 2018 6:33:08 GMT
Good spot snowmobile . The report states "Originally, it was envisaged that the Companies would continue to trade during the administration period from their Manchester premises, and that staff from the Joint Administrators’ Manchester office would have supervised the wind down of the Companies activities and the work of their employees". Given that the businesses had already ceased trading prior to the appointment of BDO, this can't be correct, and makes me wonder for how long they had been planning to step in. To be fair BDO may have got the impression that the employees were being retained due to the comments in the leaked RR draft report dated 23rd March: This is markedly different to what we are now told, that all five employees ceased working at the end of February.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 24, 2018 7:50:07 GMT
In my opinion the stand out candidate is moorfields . They are practising Insolvency Practictioners with experience in this sector and also because the interests of MoneyThing align with lenders, whether they invested in bling, grouped asset or property backed loans (MoneyThing being another high yield platform with experience in bling, grouped asset and property back loans). If they are unable to serve on the creditors committee then BondMason would be my choice. They too have an interest in maintaining confidence in the sector although one would expect them to serve their clients interests, i.e. those select property backed loans. They are visible both on the forum and through their business on which we can undertake our own due diligence. I would not be prepared to vote for someone who is unknown to me and wishes to remain private. Experience of this industry should inform us all in that we should undertake due diligence on all those who we choose to influence our finances whether that be platforms, borrowers, or those who serve on a creditors committee. Please someone correct me if I'm misinformed but I believe this applies to DualInvestor. I would agree about moorfields , if they would be willing to serve on the committee, depending of course on the cost. I'm assuming BM has enough weight to get onto the committee under its own steam and with the support already pledged to it. DI cannot remain private to anyone nominating him as BDO will not be accepting nominations for a forum alias. Unfortunately, there is nobody else to consider, and I would suggest that all of the above are better options than other private big hitter investors and groups completely unknown to any of us. In fact, I would consider it a good outcome if all of the above got through to the committee (especially if others were footing the bill for the former ). As such I'll be putting my 0.05% or so behind DI.
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p2pmark
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Post by p2pmark on Jun 24, 2018 7:52:23 GMT
DualInvestor ( dualinvestor ) - Represents a syndicate of COL lenders who invested on preferential terms. - Not a COL investor - Identity unknown in public but a retired Insolvency Practitioner qualified as a Chartered Accountant In the light that DI can't exactly respond to this (not directly anyway), I thought I would give it a go - Not entirely sure where you got this; I contacted DI a while back simply as an investor after he indicated he was meeting with BDO and would raise some questions. He offered that opportunity to anyone on FRANK, so AFAICS he represents any investor (or creditor... pains me to call us that) who contacted him. Others have been kind enough to nudge others here in the direction of DI, so it is an open invitation
- He is not an investor... which is a good thing. Impartiality and knowledge of the area that is actually important; insolvency.
- Not known in public, but I doubt anyone here would is really known in public; even if you knew his name, would you know him?. I have met DI, face to face and consider him to be a genuine guy and seriously knows his onions. He is very knowledgeable not just about what he knows, but about the P2P world, the realities of the P2P world and insolvency. He is friendly, easy to deal with but also won't mince his words and won't be afraid to speak the truth (that counts both ways between BDO & Investors
My vote is for DI. Moorfields will surely charge a lot of money (and I'm surprised nobody has looked into that line, but hey ho) and BM will have their own interests; I would prefer an impartial voice for the wider investor base.
Of course, as I understand it there can be others who can attend so this may be a moot point
I'dd add that on point 3, he'll provide his real name if you ask him privately (look on Frank for details). He gets my vote.
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insideout
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Post by insideout on Jun 24, 2018 8:37:40 GMT
People here seem to be assuming that every investor reads this or another forum (or two) and that decisions as to members of the CC will be decided largely via the forum discussions.
The procedure might be as follows.
Any person (investor or not) may wish to be on the Committee. They can nominate themselves (?) or be nominated by other(s). They can do this via this forum or any other forum or by email to BDO.
I am unclear as to the real power (if any) that a member of the CC could exercise. If it is just a matter of being told what BDO are doing and how they intend to proceed, and to make cooing noises in support of their efforts - then it is largely a waste of time.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jun 24, 2018 8:45:25 GMT
I think BDO just need to get on with it.
There are too many individual investors so trying to get a consensus on anything seems ridiculously convoluted and out of proportion. It will simply add cost and time to the process and ultimately BDO will do as they see fit anyway.
Another poster mentioned 2 separate parts to this saga which I think is bang on. Money out and money in.
Money out: I do not really see a creditors committee helping the money out part at all. Total waste of time. BDO will certainly do exactly as they see fit under their legal advice.
Money in: there could be some limited benefit to having a creditors committee here. For example, borrower offers 90p. decision needed, BDO can ask CC for a vote. But BDO can simply get the vote from the horses mouth by providing a vote page on secure site.
We have a bunch of fixed term loan assets. Turn them into cash. Pay it out.
I therefore don’t see any purpose to the CC (for investors) other than a seriously inflated bill and a seriously delayed process. A totally useless minefield. Spend the time and money on a good LPA instead and get this done with.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 24, 2018 9:26:31 GMT
Non-creditors should be careful about getting involved here, but at least can be objective. So at the risk of being told to MYOB: It concerns me that lenders are seeming to pledge support for a committee membership, without being aware of the financial, and some other, implications, if you wish your nominee to represent you. You need to be sure that the representative will align with your interest, and you need to know the likely costs. The representatives may charge a fee and/or costs, and those amounts, as I understand it, will fall upon those who are represented, not some general pot. So, before you write to BDO nominating someone for the creditors' committee, if you want them to represent your interests on the committee, then you should have an idea on what terms they will do so. Just because you nominate someone, it does not mean that they will formally represent your interests, or have any responsibility to you for their actions. 1. Moorfields, unless they say otherwise, will charge for their services, and those charges will fall upon the group of lenders whom they formally and contractually represent. This will be true professional representation of the highest quality, and accountable to the group it represents. But you need to know the terms. 2. BM, the company, is presumably a creditor who will act in the interests of its lenders, but they only have a small part of the Coll debt and might struggle to join the creditors' committee without other support. If SF wishes to join the creditor's committee as an individual, and as the representative of BM and other creditors, then you need to establish whether BM's interest align with yours, and on what terms SF, as an individual, SF will represent you - and of course whether SF's qualifications match your expectations for the job ( that is a straight question, I have no knowledge). 3. DI is not a creditor, and can represent others as an individual. All I know of DI is what I have read on this and other forums, and I think one personal message a while back. He appears to have the qualifications for the job, though I think not currently practising, and is already communicating with BDO on behalf of some Coll creditors. But then again, you need to know whether DI's current representative relationship aligns with yours, and on what terms he will formally represent your interests and be accountable to you, if that is on offer and wanted.
A forum like this is no place for a beauty contest, especially without rules, and nor is it a place for a dogfight among those who have kindly offered to support lenders. But somehow, lenders should have some formal statements from those who have offered to be on the creditor's committee and will accept nomination.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 24, 2018 10:02:24 GMT
Sigh. This is going round and round. People need to put *themselves* forward and send an email or letter to BDO. If they want paying beyond travel expenses they they need to specify. Other people need to vote by sending an email or letter to BDO. BDO will will pick the top five according to weighted support or the only 4 or 3 that put themselves forward. BDO have already shown themselves to be flexible as regards following strict rules so they are likely to accept any with popular support. That is the nature of linear forums. Yes, I think your suggestion is excellent if BDO will act as an intermediary in that way, though I expect Moorfields to pitch when they answer the questions. the simplest and free option for a creditor is just to register their claim and take no part at all in creditors' committee formation. Since all the debt is to lenders, rather than other classes of creditor, the process, as managed by BDO, and supervised the the Court and FCA, is likely to provide a reasonable deal for all lenders. A fight among groups of lenders for a larger share will not increase the total to be shared, and may increase the costs.
Stardust. I read your post and tried to reply, but it seemed to have disappeared. Then I edited this to reflect your comments, and now yours has not come back. Spooky.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jun 24, 2018 10:14:24 GMT
That is the nature of linear forums. Yes, great if BDO will act as an intermediary in that way, though I expect Moorfields to pitch when they answer the questions. The simplest and free option for a creditor is just to register their claim and take no part at all in creditors' committee formation. Since all the debt is to lenders, the process is likely to provide an acceptable deal for all lenders.
Well, I've not much idea yet how all this will pan out in reality, but I think the problem is that not all lenders will end up with the same proportional exposure to any 'debt' that remains at the end, indeed it's even possible that some may not become creditors at all. The 'debt' is likely to be derived from different causes and 'sources', and the 'fear' is that these syndicates of lenders will try and influence the committee such that some vanilla retail lenders who are already disadvantaged from not having had investment deals in the first place, will end up without a voice or any kind of meaningful influence and may end up being financially worse off.
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radar
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Post by radar on Jun 24, 2018 10:20:27 GMT
This getting to look ridiculous, is it being implied that if you do not vote for someone(who you do not know anyway) that you will not be represented, surely it is in all lenders interests (including all lenders not forum members) to have the same level of support in this awkward situation. If there is a list of candidates with a disclosure of their intentions, then I will vote otherwise I will not be voting.
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Post by Please turn me over on Jun 24, 2018 11:12:17 GMT
This getting to look ridiculous, is it being implied that if you do not vote for someone(who you do not know anyway) that you will not be represented, surely it is in all lenders interests (including all lenders not forum members) to have the same level of support in this awkward situation. If there is a list of candidates with a disclosure of their intentions, then I will vote otherwise I will not be voting.
As stated by BDO: "Such a Committee will be formed of between 3 and 5 investor/other creditor representatives who will represent the interests of all investors and creditors." [Emphasis added.]
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Jun 24, 2018 11:44:17 GMT
- Not known in public, but I doubt anyone here would is really known in public; even if you knew his name, would you know him?. I have met DI, face to face and consider him to be a genuine guy and seriously knows his onions. He is very knowledgeable not just about what he knows, but about the P2P world, the realities of the P2P world and insolvency. He is friendly, easy to deal with but also won't mince his words and won't be afraid to speak the truth (that counts both ways between BDO & Investors
My vote is for DI. Moorfields will surely charge a lot of money (and I'm surprised nobody has looked into that line, but hey ho) and BM will have their own interests; I would prefer an impartial voice for the wider investor base.
Of course, as I understand it there can be others who can attend so this may be a moot point
Well now that a random stranger off the internet has vouched for another random stranger off the internet (based on a meeting) I'm feeling more confident in a random choice or not. It's almost as reassuring as when folks popped along to Coll and were wowed by their plans and professionalism or when they were getting together to demand RR be retained as they are the best thing ever. meh but then I suppose it's marginally better than BM looking after their own interests ho hum
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radar
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Post by radar on Jun 24, 2018 11:52:29 GMT
This getting to look ridiculous, is it being implied that if you do not vote for someone(who you do not know anyway) that you will not be represented, surely it is in all lenders interests (including all lenders not forum members) to have the same level of support in this awkward situation. If there is a list of candidates with a disclosure of their intentions, then I will vote otherwise I will not be voting.
As stated by BDO: "Such a Committee will be formed of between 3 and 5 investor/other creditor representatives who will represent the interests of all investors and creditors." [Emphasis added.] That is certainly not the impression I get from the (other forum), although it may be BDO's intention
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 24, 2018 12:00:03 GMT
Does anyone know exactly what the powers (or obligations) of the CC are. Do they act like the house of lords (just offering advice) or would there be certain situations where BDO would need their approval to do something.
Also can I take legal action against the CC if it is shown that they haven't acted in the best interest of creditors?
Given there are 1100 investors and only a tiny percentage of these (<10%?) are active on this (or the other) forum, what is the likelihood of anyone from this place getting on the CC. I assume there are some big hitters out there who will want to have a say in this (assuming that having a say is in some way meaningful)
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