adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on May 25, 2020 14:21:52 GMT
This has been going on for about 2 years now - I am not even convinced FS have any security at all - this is what mrc wrote in oct 2018
well the borrower's undertaking is clearly worth about as much as a pork scratchings factory in the West Bank and I just don't see what use a solicitor'a undertaking is unless he has control of this trust which I very much doubt. In fact if the borrower has not got control of this trust due to other family members and/or restrictive covenants then I seriously wonder if this lender had the legal right to borrow against it in the first place. This sounds like yet another mega FS c*ck up to me. Just what can the adminstrator's do - keep writing more letters at £200 a pop or whatever asking for repayment ? Granted it would be fun but I don't see what good legal action against this borrower will achieve.
stay healthy all
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 25, 2020 16:50:16 GMT
rouble is, if they can make this run forever, and I suspect they can, then RSM will just have to get shot of it for peanuts when the administration is getting to the end.
And, do i gather correctly, that they are no longer paying interest? I wish we had BC on the case.
RSM?? This is an FS loan so CG are dealing with it. Do they mean they will get shot of the debt for pennies in the pound, since there is no security for this loan? Who is BC? Yes sorry CG And BC are Bridgecrowd who seem to take a more forthright attitude to delinquent borrowers
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 21, 2020 15:03:00 GMT
Loan closed - 100% loss recorded.
Final update: "Further to the previous update, the borrower has not provided any proposal to repay the debt. As it has been confirmed that there is no possibility to recover funds from the trustees, the loan will therefore shortly be closed with no funds returned to investors from the purported undertakings."
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 21, 2020 15:28:07 GMT
Not in this Loan, but, basically, the Borrower got the whole loan for Free? Trousers the lot, "Thank you very much"!  Has to repay ZERO? |
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Post by westcountryfunder on Oct 21, 2020 16:37:11 GMT
Some random thought about this - not necessarily coherent:
Final loan number 3177181762. Original loan number 2931220568.
Original documents (both undertakings) refer only to 2931220568, with no mention of any possible renewals of the loan. No evidence on subsequent renewals that the documentation has ever been amended to reflect changed loan numbers. But we may not be privy to exactly what subsequent documentation is held by FS.
Could this be how the both the borrower and his/her solicitor are wriggling out of their liablity to us?
Has the property been sold? Or don't we even know whether there is a property?
If the borrower gives an undertaking which he knows he is not in a position ever to honour, does that not amount to <redacted>? And if his solicitor knowingly connives at this, is that not also <redacted>? The solicitor is in a position to verify the validity of the trust, especially as it appears he runs the trust, or so we have been told. If not a complaint to the police, then I see a complaint to the Law Society coming on.
Surely it cannot be right that we are just going to roll over and accept this?
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crazi
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Post by crazi on Oct 21, 2020 17:29:18 GMT
I'm pretty sure the specific loan number is not an issue as the renewals refer back to previous loan numbers (we just can't see them all on the platform now) and the Solicitor specifically names the Trust and the property address.
How can CG just walk away and not take any action at all?
Surely they can pursue both the Borrower and Solicitor. The courts may not be able to force the Trustees to sell but surely can confirm the monies are owed when the property is sold and/or any portion of rent being received by the Borrower be seized?
Surely CG are not allowed to close the loan as "complete" while Lenders have the solicitors Undertaking Letter proving there is an "asset"
westcountryfunder - I agree. We must do something as CG don't care.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 21, 2020 18:00:26 GMT
<snip> Has the property been sold? Or don't we even know whether there is a property?
<snip> There definitely is a property. The full address is displayed in the 'Web Brochure' accompanying the loan details. There no recent listing for it on Land Registry so seemingly it wasn't sold as part of the marketing mentioned in the loan details. (FYI, a very similar property just a few doors along from the one mentioned above is currently on the market at £3.8M)
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 21, 2020 18:19:58 GMT
Not in this Loan, but, basically, the Borrower got the whole loan for Free? Trousers the lot, "Thank you very much"! Has to repay ZERO? That's part of the problem, the updates (pre and post administration) have been so thin on detail, it's not crystal clear what the current situation is. So lenders are left left to ponder: - the 'agreement' / 'security' / 'legalities' - call them what you will (some might opt for 'wishful thinking'; or worse....) - are null-and void; there is and never was any chance of enforcing repayment and instead it relied on the honesty of the Borrower and compliance of the Trustees and Solicitor acting for those parties; or
- at the point of the loan's origination, the above was all satisfactory, but the Borrower manipulated events so that it they longer remained so; or
- at the point of the loan's origination, the above was all satisfactory, but at some point FS managed to lose control such that the arrangement was no longer legally robust; or
- there is an outside possibility of seeing returns, but CG&Co have done a cost analysis and the chances of those actions returning sufficient funds to cover their fees (after costs), let alone lenders capital makes it potentially unprofitable for them to pursue; or
- something else...
I'm confident the Administrators could give chapter and verse if they chose, but there's no value in it for them. They can't charge any redemption fees as there'll be no redemption. No doubt this is another one on the CC's list for CG&Co to 'please explain themselves'. Based on the reply - including if CG&Co decline to add anything further - then that may be the time to consider options 
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Post by westcountryfunder on Oct 21, 2020 18:20:10 GMT
Unless some clever clogs lawyer is going to suggest that there is no valid loan agreement between FS and the borrower, then why can't the administrators take steps to make the borrower bankrupt? There must surely be some assets available even if they have to be shared with other creditors. If we still get nothing back it would still make me feel better.
This looked to be such a straightforward transaction when first floated. It was one of my larger holdings in FS. Not happy!
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 21, 2020 18:25:35 GMT
Unless some clever clogs lawyer is going to suggest that there is no valid loan agreement between FS and the borrower, then why can't the administrators take steps to make the borrower bankrupt? There must surely be some assets available even if they have to be shared with other creditors. If we still get nothing back it would still make me feel better.
This looked to be such a straightforward transaction when first floated. It was one of my larger holdings in FS. Not happy!
Because the Borrower may already be Bankrupt? (Sorry, don't mean to shoot your suggestions down out of hand, but that does seem to be a likely possibility given CG&Co's finality in the matter.)
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 21, 2020 18:33:34 GMT
Not so sure they can - looks to me as if the security offered was not worth the paper it was written on and FS should never have lent against it
Remember this was a trust and I wonder if the borrower had the legal right to offer this as security. If this borrower has other loans and no assets (on paper anyway) then going bust won't be a problem for him.
Whatever should never have happened. As I have said before what is so bloody diffcult about determining if the borrower is the owner of a
disposable secure asset and then taking a charge over it!
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kermie
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Post by kermie on Oct 21, 2020 23:30:24 GMT
What an utterly contemptuous update. An utterly disgraceful way to communicate a complete loss with to lenders with absolutely no explanation.
I can't even go online to read the historical updates because that page of the site is broken! 
Is there any route by which we can get hold of all of the loan documentation from FS/CG?
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 22, 2020 7:05:10 GMT
Until yesterday the admins didn't seem to be doing that bad a job to me - Gradually ticking off the loanbook in a slow but steady fashion.
I have to agree though, despite not being in this loan it seems shocking just to declare a 100% loss with an update that might just as well have been shortened to " Soz. No Dice.".
Also, what sort of precedent has this set? What other borrowers are now licking their lips with this sort of outcome? The Barnoldswick "oops we missed registering the charge" loan comes to mind, if that is still yet to be resolved.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 23, 2020 10:25:39 GMT
Had a quick to and from with someone at the administrator's about this today, quite "helpful" in a distressing way
The solicitor's undertaking was to transfer funds to FundingSecure, should the property be sold.
As the property has not been sold - and the trust cannot be forced to sell it - there are no funds recoverable.
From discussions with the trust they have no intention to sell so unfortunately there is no way forward.
circumstances change. If that does happen are we still in line?
in theory yes - but unlikely to occur.
So unless the occupants life in the place becomes miserable we're screwed. Here's hoping
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 23, 2020 10:35:10 GMT
Well done FS - how the hell did you get into this mess with our money - I hope you can be sued for gross negligence
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