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Post by supernumerary on Oct 4, 2018 15:38:35 GMT
FIRST OF ALL, I am NOT a finance guru or an advisor, BUT this is what I am going to do.
On Friday, the 22 June 2018, I was sent a form from BDO.co.uk as an attachment to an email, which detailed at point [3] the amount of my claim.
As I had opened a Collateral account in the 2017/2018 Tax Year with one deposit, that amount at point 3(Total Amount of claim) above my opening deposit, will be the amount that I will be claiming as income on my Tax Return for the 2017/2018 Tax Year.
Obviously I will explain in writing to HMRC, the problem with Collateral being in Administration and that amount of earned income and the capital is in the hands of the administrators, BDO.co.uk, which I MAY never ever see again.
I file a paper tax return, by the end of October each year.
The amount I earned was relatively small and so was the capital amount. Fortunately it doesn’t affect me too greatly, BUT for some others it must be a great deal of concern and you have my sympathies for this unfortunate ‘ongoing situation/saga’.
I don’t know whether this approach by myself is totally correct, but for me, I can state on my HMRC Tax Return that I have honestly done my best in determining those figures.
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mason
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Post by mason on Oct 5, 2018 11:47:40 GMT
FIRST OF ALL, I am NOT a finance guru or an advisor, BUT this is what I am going to do.On Friday, the 22 June 2018, I was sent a form from BDO.co.uk as an attachment to an email, which detailed at point [3] the amount of my claim. As I had opened a Collateral account in the 2017/2018 Tax Year with one deposit, that amount at point 3(Total Amount of claim) above my opening deposit, will be the amount that I will be claiming as income on my Tax Return for the 2017/2018 Tax Year. Obviously I will explain in writing to HMRC, the problem with Collateral being in Administration and that amount of earned income and the capital is in the hands of the administrators, BDO.co.uk, which I MAY never ever see again. I file a paper tax return, by the end of October each year. The amount I earned was relatively small and so was the capital amount. Fortunately it doesn’t affect me too greatly, BUT for some others it must be a great deal of concern and you have my sympathies for this unfortunate ‘ongoing situation/saga’. I don’t know whether this approach by myself is totally correct, but for me, I can state on my HMRC Tax Return that I have honestly done my best in determining those figures. This is a good idea. Those who have held accounts longer will hopefully have a tax statement showing the balance as at 5th April 2017 and can reconstruct the deposits and withdrawals over the course of the 2017/18 tax year to arrive at a figure for the capital portion of the balance advised by BDO, from which they can deduce the purported interest.
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archie
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Post by archie on Oct 5, 2018 13:36:54 GMT
I find it hard to believe the IT company that wrote the software doesn't have a local copy of the front end data.
It's also quite likely that the information retrieved from the servers contains a copy of the front end.
Disappointing that BDO haven't managed to create a read only version of the website
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 5, 2018 14:34:03 GMT
I really don't understand the worry and/or concern on here. You simply put together the figures as best you can, from whatever records you have, make guestimate assumptions if you have to, and enter your figures on your Return. Make sure you write in the "Notes" why & what you have done, and as concrete figures may come to light in later years you adjust accordingly. Unless you're a BH earning £££££££s HMRC really aren't that bothered, as long as you're straight & honest and tell them why & what you're doing. Don't create a mountain for yourself out of a very small mole hill.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Oct 5, 2018 15:09:07 GMT
Unless you're a BH earning £££££££s HMRC really aren't that bothered, as long as you're straight & honest and tell them why & what you're doing. Don't create a mountain for yourself out of a very small mole hill. :) Not sure about the first part of this statement (I don't know what a BH is; google tells me 'BH means "Be Happy" or "Bloody Hell" or "Big Head" So now you know' - or not) but certainly agree that there is no need to overthink about this. So long as you can honestly defend your actions if asked, and are not deliberately mis-declaring anything, I don't see the issue. Worst case they investigate and you have to pay the tax owed plus interest - if its a genuine mistake there should be little/no penalty. The idea that HMRC are capable of accurately knowing how much tax you owe - to the point where this kind of thing is going to raise flags - is not feasible in the majority of cases anyway.
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elsee
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Retired:D
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Post by elsee on Oct 5, 2018 17:09:25 GMT
Using your figures......
Tax on £100 interest (if it IS taxable- remember the £1000 tax free interest you can get) is £20. Tax on £30 is £6. It's easy to get the £14 back, just send an amendment to your tax return or amend the figures in your online tax acount.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 5, 2018 17:36:38 GMT
is it easy to recover the £70 from HMRC? My understanding is that if you submit your annual tax assessment and it shows HMRC owe you money, they are quick to cough up the readies
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Post by justdabbling on Oct 6, 2018 8:36:06 GMT
Time to tackle the self-assessment return.... At the risk of being shot down for stupidity can I ask whether we are sure that the ‘interest’ that was never drawn down and just assigned to different loans on Collateral is ‘income’ at all? I have been looking for a definition of ‘income’ for income tax purposes but I cannot find anything helpful in this situation. If the operation was not authorised then does their assignment of ‘interest’ to accounts they should not have been running count as income? If the interest was not withdrawn and is now unobtainable is this ‘income’ as I have derived no benefit?
If the illegal status of Collateral’s p2p operation means we cannot claim relief for the default, then it raises the question as to whether their ‘interest’ was also interest at all and if not withdrawn, whether it can be called income?
Unless I am advised differently I may well omit Collateral’s ‘interest’ from my tax return and just add a note saying I had a small amount in an account now found to be non-compliant and under investigation by the FCA and that I will update if I ever receive any ‘income’ As always I am very happy to receive enlightenment form those who know better!
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mason
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Post by mason on Oct 6, 2018 9:18:06 GMT
Time to tackle the self-assessment return.... At the risk of being shot down for stupidity can I ask whether we are sure that the ‘interest’ that was never drawn down and just assigned to different loans on Collateral is ‘income’ at all? I have been looking for a definition of ‘income’ for income tax purposes but I cannot find anything helpful in this situation. If the operation was not authorised then does their assignment of ‘interest’ to accounts they should not have been running count as income? If the interest was not withdrawn and is now unobtainable is this ‘income’ as I have derived no benefit? If the illegal status of Collateral’s p2p operation means we cannot claim relief for the default, then it raises the question as to whether their ‘interest’ was also interest at all and if not withdrawn, whether it can be called income? Unless I am advised differently I may well omit Collateral’s ‘interest’ from my tax return and just add a note saying I had a small amount in an account now found to be non-compliant and under investigation by the FCA and that I will update if I ever receive any ‘income’ As always I am very happy to receive enlightenment form those who know better! The legal status of our "investment" (whether or not it was P2P) has yet to be determined. We know that it couldn't be an Article 36H agreement as defined in Chapter 6B of the FSMA, but this is immaterial as we have no information with which to judge whether any relief could have been claimed. You will have to make an assumption about which box on your tax return you write in your income from Collateral. You will need to make a further such assumption about how much income (if any) you earned. Income is treated as having been received in the tax year it is paid and made available to withdraw, whether or not you actually withdraw it or use it. There is currently no reason to think that the growth of your capital as shown in the final balance communicated by BDO is anything other than income, but I'd happily be corrected if others disagree. BDO might be in a position to confirm whether or not interest was paid, and the total balance they hold is indeed correct, in the coming weeks if they are able to access the reconstructed platform database more readily. Personally, I see no reason to rush when the deadline is still a few months away.
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Post by justdabbling on Oct 6, 2018 13:36:29 GMT
Thanks Mason for your thoughts and for the clarification of the rules regarding regarding ‘interest’ which was not withdrawn.
As you suggest, there is no hurry to finalise the tax return and the administrators may enlighten us before the tax return deadline, and moneys on account could even be paid one day. I just usually do my return this time of year as I have a seasonal lull, and it leads to a tax rebate, but I could put in all the data and then wait a while before pressing ‘submit’
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 22, 2019 11:41:36 GMT
Statement from BDO regarding Tax Statement & wording fro lenders to provide to HMRC now available on BDO Collateral page
star dust I assume will add it to pin thread if appropriate (or another mod)
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Post by mrclondon on Jan 22, 2019 11:48:27 GMT
Statement from BDO regarding Tax Statement & wording fro lenders to provide to HMRC now available on BDO Collateral page
star dust I assume will add it to pin thread if appropriate (or another mod)
Just a pity they didn't think to merge it onto a BDO letter headed template - there is no indication of the legal entity that has issued this, just the name of an employee.
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Post by p2psavvy on Jan 22, 2019 19:01:54 GMT
Statement from BDO regarding Tax Statement & wording fro lenders to provide to HMRC now available on BDO Collateral page
star dust I assume will add it to pin thread if appropriate (or another mod)
Doesn't help in not declaring interest received in your 2017-18 Tax Return. If/when you do get the necessary information, HMRC will charge interest on late payment. They don't care what your issue is, they always charge interest. I got this from an HMRC inspector, which is why I have declared what I can, based on my own records.
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duck
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Post by duck on Feb 13, 2019 11:54:18 GMT
Whilst not directly related to a Tax Statement I have sent the following to HMRC today Peer to Peer lending platform Collateral UK Ltd (in administration)
As a past investor in ‘Collateral’ I am looking for clarification with respect to the Tax position of losses that will be crystallised following the Administration and subsequent Receivership. I am fully aware of SAIM 12000 (et al) and the requirements for claiming Tax relief on losses however in the case of Collateral the waters appear to have been muddied. The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) register showed Collateral UK Ltd to be authorised (see enclosed) however in a statement dated 04/04/2018 the FCA stated “The Collateral Companies operated a peer-to-peer lending platform through a website (collateraluk.com) and Collateral UK Ltd purported to hold an interim permission from the FCA to carry on regulated activities. In fact, none of the Collateral Companies held any valid authorisation or permission to carry on regulated activities.” www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories...-companies The FCA’s statement is in direct contradiction to what was shown on their register, something that they are currently investigating. I and many others invested with ‘Collateral’ based on their regulation by the FCA. It is my understanding that in these circumstances relief is available as per SAIM 12000 (when losses are crystallized). Could you please confirm my understanding is correctThis unfortunately had to be sent by snail mail so don't expect an update soon ....... but there again I don't expect the administration/receivership to come to an end any time soon.
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duck
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Post by duck on May 13, 2019 12:50:59 GMT
I have just received a response to my letter (previous post) it goes as follows Thank you for your query about Peer to Peer lending. I am very sorry for the time it has taken to acknowledge.I appreciate that the circumstances surrounding Collateral UK Ltd are very unusual and also the decision of the Administrators to recall loans and wind up the the business has blurred matters even further.For these reasons I have referred the details to a Policy Specialist to reviewWe will write to you again once a decision has been made.Yours sincerely So there you have it HMRC don't know how to deal with this
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