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Post by listener on Jul 25, 2018 22:37:25 GMT
Good grief. I've clearly taken my eye off the ball since FC went all automated. I used to take an interest in what I was bidding on. I found the 1.9/0.9 interest rate shocking and went to look up the rates (which irritatingly went down to 4.6% at the lowest A+ last time I was bidding). Obviously, I didn't bid on any at that level. After taking a back seat for several months after the AI system begun I have no started to trickle money in again. But, WHAT, 0.9%... seriously?? And they've stopped telling us what the rates are. Surely FC shouldn't be taking 1% from that. amwinv, will you be mentioning that issue when you email FC?
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on Jul 25, 2018 23:08:48 GMT
I emailed a while back, and just got a super patronising reply explaining how FC works, which as a customer for 6 months previous, I kinda should already know, don't ya think?
I sent a stronger worded email back, and just basically received the same explanation again, but in even more pointless detail. Felt very much like a copy-paste from the "FC corporate manual of treating customers like idiots".
I'm pondering whether to jack it all in with them and move it elsewhere now.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jul 26, 2018 12:22:13 GMT
Obviously FC believes that the bulk of remaining customers ARE idiots, hence that is the correct way to treat them. If you put up with it, you are entitled to join the club. I'm still waiting with bated (not 'baited') breath to hear some rationale for this alleged 1.9% .. does anyone have an answer yet?? (No, I am not in that loan, or indeed any others apart from defaults).
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Post by GentlemansFamilyFinances on Jul 26, 2018 15:28:08 GMT
Funding Circle make a cut of arranging each loan and take a fraction of the interest paid to investors/lenders. This might mean that they a big incentive to maximise their 1% over our 10% and leaves the lenders hung out to dry.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jul 26, 2018 16:40:37 GMT
The interest rate does not affect FC's fees, and so it does not matter to them if they cut rates. They take 1% of outstanding principal. So they could reduce interest rates to zero and still take 1%, leaving us with a negative return.
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Post by listener on Jul 26, 2018 16:46:46 GMT
After reading this thread I looked at my loan sheet and found a 2.7% loan added to my portfolio very recently. I have emailed FC to ask what all this is about. No reply yet.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jul 26, 2018 18:17:55 GMT
don't rule it out!
Actually my FC holding is now a few pence and that is how it is going to stay,...
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Post by listener on Jul 27, 2018 16:52:21 GMT
I have emailed FC re this 1.9% and 2.7% loan issue. They have answered in the usual way, and have pointed out to me the 'balanced portfolio, blah, blah, blah'. They also mentioned that the new highest rate is an alarming 22.9%. I struggle to work out how a company desperate enough to take them up on a loan with a 22.9% interest rate will stay the course of payments. Any thoughts, people?
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Jul 27, 2018 19:50:36 GMT
I agree that a loan paying 1.9% less fees is pretty silly and not worth my admin time, but I would suggest that examining the interest rates of your individual loans is a bit of a red herring.
The algorithm aims to acheive a certain "estimated fully diversified return". The target appears to be somewhere between 7.0% and 7.5% and no doubt it changes all the time as supply and demand vary; but it's the same target for everyone. If you happen to have a return currently below the target, then you will tend to be allocated loans with higher rates to bring up your number.
So, possessing the dreaded 1.9% loan just means that the rest of your portfolio will have a higher average rate, which will exactly balance it out.
If you did somehow manage to convince FC to sell you out of the 1.9% loan, then any subsequent loans you receive will have an ever-so-slightly lower average rate than they otherwise would have done, with the net result that all that effort made no difference.
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 27, 2018 20:51:35 GMT
I agree that a loan paying 1.9% less fees is pretty silly and not worth my admin time, but I would suggest that examining the interest rates of your individual loans is a bit of a red herring.
The algorithm aims to acheive a certain "estimated fully diversified return". The target appears to be somewhere between 7.0% and 7.5% and no doubt it changes all the time as supply and demand vary; but it's the same target for everyone. If you happen to have a return currently below the target, then you will tend to be allocated loans with higher rates to bring up your number.
So, possessing the dreaded 1.9% loan just means that the rest of your portfolio will have a higher average rate, which will exactly balance it out.
If you did somehow manage to convince FC to sell you out of the 1.9% loan, then any subsequent loans you receive will have an ever-so-slightly lower average rate than they otherwise would have done, with the net result that all that effort made no difference.
It doesn't really work like this though. Getting a loan with a higher rate doesn't necessarily mean you will get a higher return as the risk is correspondingly higher meaning there is a higher risk of default. The algorithm aims to set everyone a similar estimated return after defaults and fees (not a similar average interest rate across their portfolio).....the actual return you get could in theory be higher or lower depending on your portfolio's actual bad debt performance. It is worth noting that a month ago FC revised down their projected returns for a balanced portfolio from 7.0%-7.5% to 6.0%-7.0% due to a higher actual/anticipated level of defaults. In my view this will have to be revised down again in the future. Turning to the 1.9% loan in question, the reason people are so annoyed is that after fees, the yield on this loan is 0.9%. There is a risk of default so the expected return on this low is therefore below 0.9% (FC obviously consider this a small risk but it is a risk nonetheless alongside the platform risk). This rate is less than you can get in a risk free FSCS instant access savings account (and a loan is not instant access by any means). So whichever way you look at it it's an absolutely abysmal investment. You are also guaranteed a return below the projected return...that means to balance it out your portfolio will be allocated a much higher risk loan to compensate, increasing your chances of a default. FC meanwhile sit in the middle and get paid their equal 1% fee on each loan part. The reward just does not justify the risk. In my view FC bring loans like this as a simple way to ramp their volume up to boost their revenue in the hope that most lenders won't notice (which they won't)......demand is outstripping supply, they need more loans.
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Post by steamer on Aug 1, 2018 13:00:03 GMT
I am absolutely sure that FC know exactly what they are doing. I have not wasted time with emails. It is part of the reason I stopped investing last year and am extracting my 12k to put somewhere else - not in PtoP.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 1, 2018 13:10:28 GMT
I am absolutely sure that FC know exactly what they are doing. I have not wasted time with emails. It is part of the reason I stopped investing last year and am extracting my 12k to put somewhere else - not in PtoP. Where do you suggest going ? I can’t find decent returns anywhere else. I’ve £5k + in F.C. defaulted London loans. Several hundred K in other p2p. Nowhere else offers anything like p2p returns even after defaults
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