SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Jul 25, 2018 11:14:19 GMT
Property Moose have been doing it for a while (BP claim to be the first seems erroneous) albeit at higher rates. Hasn't really worked AIUI & I think at least one loan got converted into equity unfavourably and the rest are beyond term. We are the first platform to our knowledge that allows investment into either the Shares and/or Loan of the same property. We are able to do this because we are the asset manager of each investment. Please do let us know if you are aware of anyone else that does this. Property Partner sought feedback from at least some of their customers recently about starting to do the same, proposing to raise their own mortgage finance in-house for future property SPVs, rather than taking out a 3rd party mortgage as now.
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Post by britishpearl on Jul 25, 2018 12:07:05 GMT
its worth checking the fee's section as there are more then one in some cases We just want to reiterate that all estimated returns are quoted net of all fees as listed on our Support page under the Fees section ( www.britishpearl.com/support). Generally speaking we have two types of fees: investment management fees and property management fees. Our goal is to keep fees in line with the market and where possible replicate the fees experienced by a typical buy to let landlord investing directly. Fees direct to investors are very simple and can be found at the bottom of the How It Works page ( www.britishpearl.com/how-it-works), the fees in the support section are much more descriptive including fees charged to the property SPVs. Transparency is important to us, when describing our fees we have provided a What, Why, How to assist understanding and purpose.
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Post by britishpearl on Jul 25, 2018 12:10:23 GMT
An informative article from Orca. I would be concerned with a cooling property market & the longer term value of property backed assets. A typical property cycle can be ten years plus & I believe prices will fall back over the next few years. The current economic outlook is mired in uncertainty & wage growth remains fairly static. LTV is still a huge problem for the P2P industry with property backed assets hugely overvalued. A RICS valuation is baseless & means nothing in a distressed scenario....as many platforms & investors have discovered to their cost! You raise some very good points regarding the overall state of the UK property market. At British Pearl we are generally cautious by nature and as a result we are currently aiming to identify specific opportunities for which the national property pressures have less impact. Our property team will only ever purchase a property which fits our strict investment criteria. We look to buy at below open market values by using our relationships to source good investments, through our ability to purchase using cash and ability to complete quickly. Any savings we make we pass onto our investors. Naturally we focus on specific areas with strong rental demand and a good growth story. Where possible we will add further value through refurbishment, ultimately our goal is to offer our investors a choice between yield and capital appreciation. For example, we refurbished our Acton property and added significant value, and our Portsmouth property will offer Share Investors a 7.1% p.a. dividend based on the current rental income. By allowing investment into Loans as well as Shares, we allow investors to build a diversified property portfolio according to their risk preferences.
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Post by britishpearl on Jul 25, 2018 12:12:25 GMT
Interest rate of up to 4.4% (I assume the average return will be lower) and 0.5% SM fees don't sound very attractive. If I had spare cash doing nothing I would spread it across 30Day, GS, LW and may be Rolling (RS rates seem to be on a rise again) and get better return for less risk. "With Loan-To-Value ratios of between 50% and 70%, investors can expect a safe source of income." - well, recent experiences on other platforms suggest that LTV figures are not to be trusted. We just want to reiterate that all of our estimated returns are quoted net of all of our fees. The fixed interest returns on the Loans we offer currently are between 4 & 4.4% p.a, meaning averages are above 4%. This is competitive with current 5-year buy to let mortgage rates with similar LTVs. Each loan is secured with a first charge against the specific property to which it relates and so, since our Loan Investors get paid before our Share Investors we believe that these returns will be achieved plus the capital is secure. Our loan model is slightly different to existing P2P lending in that the counterparty to the investors loan is the specific property SPV that we manage and therefore you are not exposed to counterparty risk in the same way as the traditional P2P model. Our financial modelling is broken down on each property under the Financials section in each property Info Pack (e.g. www.britishpearl.com/investment/2). If you click “Property Returns” on the toggle and “Show More”, we break down all financials and aim to be completely transparent with our modelling. For further comfort around our advertised LTVs please review the detailed financials provided together with independent surveyors report provided in the document section of the website. As well as it being a requirement of being directly authorised by the FCA as an asset manager, we believe in being completely transparent so that our investors can make their own assessments of the individual investments. This includes us including the key assumptions in our forecasts for both income and expenditure as well as capital. Over time we want to engage directly with our investors to adapt to their needs so that we can ensure we are providing the information that they need.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 25, 2018 13:05:33 GMT
Property Moose have been doing it for a while (BP claim to be the first seems erroneous) albeit at higher rates. Hasn't really worked AIUI & I think at least one loan got converted into equity unfavourably and the rest are beyond term. We are the first platform to our knowledge that allows investment into either the Shares and/or Loan of the same property. We are able to do this because we are the asset manager of each investment. Please do let us know if you are aware of anyone else that does this. AS indicated, Property Moose have been offering lenders the chance to lend cash to selected property SPVs (normal MO is crowdfunded property) in the form of fixed term loan notes rather than fund the property purchase through traditional mortgages so this would appear to in part mirror your offer. That said they are changing their model to a portfolio system and currently are only offering the loan notes rather than shares in the SPVs.
On transparency - it would be more transparent if the investments terms were made more obvious. At the moment they are a 'hidden' in a small icon at the side of the dashboard (its labelled documents but the label was hidden until I clicked on the expand arrow) and better still available pre-sign up. Not a fan of platforms who make it hard to find t&cs.
It would be worth including the calc for the success fee in the FAQ with the worked example as it wasnt obvious straightoff. There is also no reference in SM fees to the fact that the success fee may be payable, no reference is made to the higher percentage for a development property exit and no mention of renewal fees, in fact I cant see any reference to renewals at all in the FAQ.
Provision funds & SHIELD are a marketing point and should be perhaps emphasised more not just buried in the FAQ.
Id like to see the dividend income prominent on the listing, particularly as this seems to vary wildly on the current offered properties (Acton 1%! - Pompey 7%). Given that investors are likely to invest for both income and accumulation reasons it would seem better to highlight the dividend income seperate to the capital growth like other platforms.
I would like to see it made more obvious whether investments will be receiving dividends from the beginning and whether properties are tenanted or not. Seems a little hard in places to ascertain how current the info is.
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Post by britishpearl on Jul 25, 2018 15:45:59 GMT
We are the first platform to our knowledge that allows investment into either the Shares and/or Loan of the same property. We are able to do this because we are the asset manager of each investment. Please do let us know if you are aware of anyone else that does this. AS indicated, Property Moose have been offering lenders the chance to lend cash to selected property SPVs (normal MO is crowdfunded property) in the form of fixed term loan notes rather than fund the property purchase through traditional mortgages so this would appear to in part mirror your offer. That said they are changing their model to a portfolio system and currently are only offering the loan notes rather than shares in the SPVs.
On transparency - it would be more transparent if the investments terms were made more obvious. At the moment they are a 'hidden' in a small icon at the side of the dashboard (its labelled documents but the label was hidden until I clicked on the expand arrow) and better still available pre-sign up. Not a fan of platforms who make it hard to find t&cs.
It would be worth including the calc for the success fee in the FAQ with the worked example as it wasnt obvious straightoff. There is also no reference in SM fees to the fact that the success fee may be payable, no reference is made to the higher percentage for a development property exit and no mention of renewal fees, in fact I cant see any reference to renewals at all in the FAQ.
Provision funds & SHIELD are a marketing point and should be perhaps emphasised more not just buried in the FAQ.
Id like to see the dividend income prominent on the listing, particularly as this seems to vary wildly on the current offered properties (Acton 1%! - Pompey 7%). Given that investors are likely to invest for both income and accumulation reasons it would seem better to highlight the dividend income seperate to the capital growth like other platforms.
I would like to see it made more obvious whether investments will be receiving dividends from the beginning and whether properties are tenanted or not. Seems a little hard in places to ascertain how current the info is.
Dear ilmoro, Thank you very much for your feedback. As an early stage business, we appreciate all the input we can get from prospective investors and really value this community’s thoughts. You raise some pertinent points regarding the investment term and dividend income being more prominent, and we are looking for ways to incorporate these. We want to be 100% transparent with our model and costs. We do want to reiterate that all of our estimated returns are quoted net of all fees (i.e. they account for success fees also). We think that a worked example of the success fee is a good idea and that its impact on the resale market should definitely be described. Again, we have put these into our development roadmap. Thanks also for your thoughts on the SPV Shield and Provision Fund, we will definitely look for ways to highlight these, rather than only list in our Support pages. As you note these are for the benefit of investors. Again, we would like to thank you again for the valuable feedback and thoughts you have shared.
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Post by explorep2p on Aug 1, 2018 17:03:16 GMT
Hello Forum There's been some good discussion here about new site British Pearl and its merits. For anyone interested in learning more, yesterday we published a (fairly long and detailed) interview with their CEO. Interview with British Pearl CEO |
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Post by britishpearl on Aug 13, 2018 16:26:58 GMT
Hello again P2P Forum,
For a limited time, British Pearl are offering a returns boost of 2% on Share Investments and 1% on Loan Investments. This means that you can earn up to 6% rental income (estimated) in your first year on our Lancaster shares and/or up to 5.4% in the first year on a Loan investment in either Lancaster or Portsmouth.
This is a great opportunity if you are thinking about investing your 2018 ISA allowance or transferring in an existing ISA balance to our own flexible ISA. Returns on an investment of £20,000 would be boosted by a further £200, on us. The boost also applies to individual Share Investments and/or Loan Investments in individual properties made outside of an ISA.
The offer runs from 1st August 2018 and ends on 30th September 2018. This applies for all investment amounts from £2,000 up to £20,000 in total on either shares or loans.
You can reply to this with any questions you may have about the offer or British Pearl in general.
Terms and conditions apply. Capital at risk. British Pearl is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.
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Post by markaldrich on Nov 24, 2018 8:09:27 GMT
As Assetz Exchange has still not landed I was taking a look at British Pearl. Has anyone any experience or views please?
Thanks
Mark
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elliotn
Member of DD Central
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Post by elliotn on Nov 24, 2018 11:10:23 GMT
As Assetz Exchange has still not landed I was taking a look at British Pearl. Has anyone any experience or views please? Thanks Mark Lots of good discussion on this platform on the principle thread, might get more traction there.
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Post by markaldrich on Nov 24, 2018 11:27:55 GMT
Ok thanks
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nsilva
New Member
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Post by nsilva on Nov 24, 2018 12:49:08 GMT
As Assetz Exchange has still not landed I was taking a look at British Pearl. Has anyone any experience or views please? Thanks Mark Lots of good discussion on this platform on the principle thread, might get more traction there. Hi! where can i find this thread? thanks!
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Dec 1, 2018 19:33:22 GMT
I've had a look at british pearl platform and I feel it's not competitive enough.
- if I want safe and low interest loan (ie. 4-5%) i'd just tap into the bond market and buy Virgin Media or similar well established company and not worry anymore.
I think doing cash buy and competing against bank mortgage is inherently a loosing game... Because bank can just print money when it's needed! Not us!
- then there is the share purchase which are all hypothetical projection of overall property value growth... Which I obviously don't trust as for now no one have been able to predict the future.
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Post by britishpearl on Dec 20, 2018 12:29:59 GMT
As Assetz Exchange has still not landed I was taking a look at British Pearl. Has anyone any experience or views please? Thanks Mark Hi Mark, Please contact us on +44 203657 7799 and we are happy to have a chat and answer any questions, or you can come see our operation if you are London based. British Pearl Team
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Post by britishpearl on Dec 20, 2018 12:30:43 GMT
I've had a look at british pearl platform and I feel it's not competitive enough. - if I want safe and low interest loan (ie. 4-5%) i'd just tap into the bond market and buy Virgin Media or similar well established company and not worry anymore. I think doing cash buy and competing against bank mortgage is inherently a loosing game... Because bank can just print money when it's needed! Not us! - then there is the share purchase which are all hypothetical projection of overall property value growth... Which I obviously don't trust as for now no one have been able to predict the future. Many thanks for your comments. we would like to clarify some points around our business model and particularly the risks. Capital security When investors buy a loan with us, they are acting like a bank and providing a mortgage that is secured against a specific property investment and carries an equivalent interest rate (3.75% to 4.4%). The size of the total loan is from 50% to a maximum of 70% of the property purchase price (this is called the loan-to-value or ‘LTV’). This means that the property price would have to fall by around 30% to 50% before any capital would be at risk. Their investment takes priority to be repaid first, before any Share Investors, when a property is sold. We believe that this level of capital security offered by our loan investments combined with the interest rate on offer is extremely competitive. Comparing this to the bond market, let us consider Virgin Media as an example. The bond issuing entity is currently rated B1 with a stable outlook by Moody's. This is a speculative grade rating and defined by Moodys as "Obligations rated B are considered speculative and are subject to high credit risk". Looking at their shortest maturity issue (with ISIN XS1115233808, coupon 6.375%, maturity 2024) you can see this risk currently reflected in the price of the bond having fallen from a high this year of 107.983 to the low in early December of 100.478 (see www.bourse.lu/security/XS1115233808/215304 at the Luxembourg Stock Exchange for the pricing history). That is a capital fall of some 7%. If the worst was to happen and the underlying corporate entity was to go into liquidation, the average recovery rates for B rated bonds have historically averaged just 38% of capital (see Moodys "Annual Default Study: Corporate Default and Recovery Rates, 1920 - 2017" from February 2018). Bonds are typically viewed as being "low risk" but holding a bond that fails, or those that are more speculative in nature, can bring high levels of capital volatility and default risk. We didn’t follow your point about banks being able to print money, please explain and perhaps we can clear your concerns. Share investments Regarding the estimated share returns including a capital growth element, you are obviously correct that it is hypothetical. This is correct but we believe that we tend to be on the more cautious side with our modeling process and have a focus on the longer-term in line with our view of the need to take a longer-term approach to property investment. As a result, we model each investment out for its full investment term of three or five years for both the annual profit & loss statement along with the balance sheet (or capital) valuations. Our starting point is aiming to secure as strong a discount as possible which more than covers the upfront costs of property purchase (such as the legals and stamp duty). We are able to do this as we purchase using an underwriting vehicle which enables us to buy with cash. This immediate liquidity is extremely valuable in the current environment and has allowed us to negotiate extremely strong purchase discounts. We then work hard to carry out any necessary refurbishment (either light or heavy) in order to efficiently add capital value. While our longer-term view is generally positive and there are always interesting opportunities available if you seek them out, making general property forecasts is very much an inexact science. Therefore we look to the broader property market to provide guidance and independent input. In order to do this we take the five-year average forecasts at a broad regional level from four independent property experts. These are Savills, JLL, Knight Frank and CBRE. Note that these organisations are all relatively cautious currently with forecasts in the area of 10-15% for broad regions which annualises to just 2-3% or so. The forecast input to our current investments has been just 2.5% per annum over the full investment term. The inputs to the model include the above plus other assumptions and all fees in place and combine with the leverage that is applied as a result of the details being partially funded through debt (our loan offering) to produce net average capital gains for each year. To summarise, the key capital benefits that we bring to provide a value-add service to our customers include: 1. Strong buying power that can lock-in capital discounts where possible 2. Ability to add value through refurbishment as necessary 3. Utilising independent third party inputs for forecasts 4. Structuring the investment with leverage to further benefit the share investors I hope that this helps to clarify the differentiating points of our business model and I would be happy to discuss any of the points or provide any further clarification that you may have.
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