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Post by Ace on Oct 30, 2018 23:58:43 GMT
As someone who lends more that £1000, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't really care how many loan chunks I have or what size they are, though clearly others do. I do care how it affects my return.
On average, someone auto reinvesting looses interest on roughly half the minimum loan chunk size.
A minimum loan chunk size of £1 results in a £0.03 loss of interest per year in the 5 year product compared with no minimum loan chunk size.
This increases to £0.30 loss of interest if the minimum loan chunk size increases to £10. Fairly inconsequential if your Lending £1000. It reduces the interest rate from about 5.997% to 5.97%, so no big deal.
However, someone only lending the minimum of £10 would suffer a far more dramatic reduction in effective interest rate as it would take a substantial time for amortization and interest payments to build up to £10.
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Post by Ace on Oct 31, 2018 7:44:07 GMT
As a low investor close to £1000 in LW I would prefer a minimum chunk size of £1 rather than £10. From experience form other platforms 100 loans does not provide enough diversification. If you do force through a £10 minimum I will unfortunately end up closing my account. keystone, having multiple loans on LW doesn't give you any greater protection than having all of your funds in a single loan. This because your funds are protected by the PF, and if the PF were to become exhausted than the funds from all investors would be pooled so that any loss would be shared across all lenders in proportion to the size of their investment. So, your funds are effectively diversified across all loans on the platform, giving you the greatest possible diversification even if you only hold a single loan.
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Post by nesako on Oct 31, 2018 8:52:17 GMT
As a low investor close to £1000 in LW I would prefer a minimum chunk size of £1 rather than £10. From experience form other platforms 100 loans does not provide enough diversification. If you do force through a £10 minimum I will unfortunately end up closing my account. keystone , having multiple loans on LW doesn't give you any greater protection than having all of your funds in a single loan. This because your funds are protected by the PF, and if the PF were to become exhausted than the funds from all investors would be pooled so that any loss would be shared across all lenders in proportion to the size of their investment. So, your funds are effectively diversified across all loans on the platform, giving you the greatest possible diversification even if you only hold a single loan. To support the above, I will quote LW website. Everyone gets maximum diversification automatically, regardless of number of loan parts: If at any time, in the opinion of the Trustee, the Lending Works Shield does not have sufficient funds to satisfy the claims arising from the loans outstanding (a deficit), and, the deficit is not, in the opinion of the Trustee in its sole and absolute discretion, capable of being rectified through the ordinary course of business, the Trustee in consultation with Lending Works may declare a “Pooling Event”. If a Pooling Event occurs, the value of the outstanding deficit will be split or 'pooled' among all existing lenders on a pro-rata basis. Given that lenders rely on the Fair Algorithm for the allocation of their funds, and do not make the choice themselves, we believe the Pooling Event to be the fairest way. The link in the Diversification section above explains in further detail.
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macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
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Post by macq on Oct 31, 2018 11:16:46 GMT
Just a further update on this thread to say that we're looking to implement an increase to the minimum chunk size from £1 to £10. We've reviewed the data, and over 99% (based on funds invested) of investors lend more than £1,000, so wouldn't really be impacted at all by this change. There are literally millions of transactions being created in the database, the majority of which relate to fragmenting and distributing loan repayments on chunks less than £10 in value. In order to optimise the speed of the site and processing times for actions like Quick Withdraw, and to allow the platform to scale going forward, we feel this change is unavoidable. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this though, especially if you currently lend less than say £1,000. If it means the business can run better and grow smoothly it would seem to make sense,as platform strength seems to be more to the forefront of peoples thinking i would guess (but the £5 mentioned above maybe something you could consider)But by looking at the borrower FAQ it does not look like there has been a minimum figure for an overpayment or to settle the loan so would that ever change(bigger repayment to invest) or does it not make any difference to the business? i.e transactions etc
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Post by Matthew on Oct 31, 2018 13:18:02 GMT
As someone who lends more that £1000, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't really care how many loan chunks I have or what size they are, though clearly others do. I do care how it affects my return. On average, someone auto reinvesting looses interest on roughly half the minimum loan chunk size. A minimum loan chunk size of £1 results in a £0.03 loss of interest per year in the 5 year product compared with no minimum loan chunk size. This increases to £0.30 loss of interest if the minimum loan chunk size increases to £10. Fairly inconsequential if your Lending £1000. It reduces the interest rate from about 5.997% to 5.97%, so no big deal. However, someone only lending the minimum of £10 would suffer a far more dramatic reduction in effective interest rate as it would take a substantial time for amortization and interest payments to build up to £10. Thanks AceWhat assumptions did you use to calculate the £0.03 loss of interest on min. £1 chunk size out of interest? Regarding lending the minimum £10 - this is a valid concern, though we feel that making the site more useable and scalable for the 99.9% should be favoured over supporting the 0.1% of investors lending £10. Hopefully most would agree.
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Post by df on Oct 31, 2018 13:39:08 GMT
As someone who lends more that £1000, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't really care how many loan chunks I have or what size they are, though clearly others do. I do care how it affects my return. On average, someone auto reinvesting looses interest on roughly half the minimum loan chunk size. A minimum loan chunk size of £1 results in a £0.03 loss of interest per year in the 5 year product compared with no minimum loan chunk size. This increases to £0.30 loss of interest if the minimum loan chunk size increases to £10. Fairly inconsequential if your Lending £1000. It reduces the interest rate from about 5.997% to 5.97%, so no big deal. However, someone only lending the minimum of £10 would suffer a far more dramatic reduction in effective interest rate as it would take a substantial time for amortization and interest payments to build up to £10. Thanks Ace What assumptions did you use to calculate the £0.03 loss of interest on min. £1 chunk size out of interest? Regarding lending the minimum £10 - this is a valid concern, though we feel that making the site more useable and scalable for the 99.9% should be favoured over supporting the 0.1% of investors lending £10. Hopefully most would agree. I'm surprised that some people are actually investing as little as £10 on the platform. It doesn't make much sense even as part of diversified portfolio or for testing the waters.
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Post by Ace on Oct 31, 2018 15:06:46 GMT
As someone who lends more that £1000, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't really care how many loan chunks I have or what size they are, though clearly others do. I do care how it affects my return. On average, someone auto reinvesting looses interest on roughly half the minimum loan chunk size. A minimum loan chunk size of £1 results in a £0.03 loss of interest per year in the 5 year product compared with no minimum loan chunk size. This increases to £0.30 loss of interest if the minimum loan chunk size increases to £10. Fairly inconsequential if your Lending £1000. It reduces the interest rate from about 5.997% to 5.97%, so no big deal. However, someone only lending the minimum of £10 would suffer a far more dramatic reduction in effective interest rate as it would take a substantial time for amortization and interest payments to build up to £10. Thanks Ace What assumptions did you use to calculate the £0.03 loss of interest on min. £1 chunk size out of interest?Regarding lending the minimum £10 - this is a valid concern, though we feel that making the site more useable and scalable for the 99.9% should be favoured over supporting the 0.1% of investors lending £10. Hopefully most would agree. Hi Matthew, My assumption was that, on average an investor will have half the minimum chunk size waiting to be invested. I.e. Small repayments of capital and interest are received each day until the total is greater than the minimum chunk size. At which point this sum is queued for investment (I've ignored any time that the sum above the minimum chunk size spends in the queue as this won't be affected by the minimum chunk size). So, at any time there will be somewhere between zero and the minimum chunk size that can't be invested. Hence, on average, there will be half the minimum chunk size that can't be invested. Therefore, over a period of a year an investor would loose 6% (on the 5 year product) of half the minimum chunk size. So, if the minimum chunk size was £1 an investor would loose 6% of £0.50 = £0.03 purely due to the minimum chunk size. Raising the minimum chunk size to £10, gives 6% of £5 = £0.30. This is obviously a very rough and ready calculation that won't necessarily apply to each individual investor, but does give a good general idea of the effects of changing the minimum chunk size. I should point out that this only applies to relatively small investments. The daily repayments on large investments would likely be larger than the minimum chunk size, so can be queued for investment immediately. I am fully supportive of your proposal to increase the minimum chunk size, I was merely trying to point out what effect it would have. I agree with df that investments of £10, where this will have a very large effect, are rather pointless. Perhaps you should consider raising the minimum platform investment amount at the same time as raising the minimum chunk size. If the minimum platform investment amount was set to ten times the minimum chunk size, then the worst case average effect of the minimum chunk size would be to reduce the 6% headline rate to 5.7%.
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Post by Ace on Oct 31, 2018 19:59:00 GMT
Hi again Matthew , Another idea that I haven't fully thought through, but might be worthy of consideration if you don't want to raise the minimum investment amount. How about setting the minimum chunk size to 10% of the invested amount, with an upper limit of £10? So, someone with only £10 invested would get a minimum chunk size of £1. Someone with £50 invested would get a minimum chunk size of £5, etc. And anyone with an investment of £100 or over would get a minimum chunk size of £10. I recognised that this would be more complicated to program and explain, but would probably achieve your aim of greatly reducing the number of loan chunks without greatly disadvantage anyone. You could obviously play with the limits and or percentages to suit your requirements. Just a thought...
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Post by Matthew on Nov 1, 2018 16:47:48 GMT
Hi again Matthew , Another idea that I haven't fully thought through, but might be worthy of consideration if you don't want to raise the minimum investment amount. How about setting the minimum chunk size to 10% of the invested amount, with an upper limit of £10? So, someone with only £10 invested would get a minimum chunk size of £1. Someone with £50 invested would get a minimum chunk size of £5, etc. And anyone with an investment of £100 or over would get a minimum chunk size of £10. I recognised that this would be more complicated to program and explain, but would probably achieve your aim of greatly reducing the number of loan chunks without greatly disadvantage anyone. You could obviously play with the limits and or percentages to suit your requirements. Just a thought... Thanks for this Ace, very helpful. We had actually worked through an option similar to this, and it's still on the agenda, though we've separated increasing the minimum chunk size from the diversification point. While we're not against scaling up the minimum chunk size depending on amount of investment, I still feel that we need to set a floor at £10. If someone is only looking to invest £10, I'd question whether this is the right product for them, and I'm fairly sure a lack of diversification on £10 (and potential for cash drag) would not be a major concern. On that note, we're proposing that the new minimum investment would be £100. I think this is still a sensible figure, comparable with other investment platforms, and will allow some upfront diversification i.e. 10 x £10 chunks. However, we will be recommending investing at least £1,000, provided your circumstances allow, to get the best experience from Lending Works i.e. speed of reinvestments etc. The £100 minimum should allow investors to get a feel for the platform and add/withdraw money before committing any more funds. Hope this helps.
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Post by fatbritabroad on Nov 22, 2018 21:20:51 GMT
Id say this is fair. To me this type of platform is for slightly larger amounts anyway. I have a mid 4 figure sum in lending works and a further 1000 in the non isa amount. Appreciate some may have smaller amounts but I would think alot have far larger than I as well
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upland
Member of DD Central
Posts: 479
Likes: 175
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Post by upland on Dec 1, 2018 13:06:40 GMT
Could we get into the situation that there are so many small loans that the computational effort needed to handle it becomes excessive ? By excessive I mean that the website could time out to a user transiently. Not the end of the world but could create a lot of support effort needed to answer user questions. I suspect that this has actually happened on a few other sites.
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Post by Matthew on Dec 7, 2018 18:04:10 GMT
FYI - We released a new Lending settings page this week - any feedback welcome. We hope you'll find it a lot more intuitive than its unruly predecessor.
Also note we've released a new Add money page. Again, any feedback good or bad is welcome.
While I'm here... Question on adding money - how important/useful would offering Direct Debit for regular investments be to you?
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Post by jojingles on Dec 7, 2018 21:17:06 GMT
FYI - We released a new Lending settings page this week - any feedback welcome. We hope you'll find it a lot more intuitive than its unruly predecessor. Also note we've released a new Add money page. Again, any feedback good or bad is welcome. While I'm here... Question on adding money - how important/useful would offering Direct Debit for regular investments be to you? Hi Matthew I am a new customer but have seen the old and the new pages. I have to say the add money is a lot easier to understand than when I first added money. The lending screen is better too- much clearer. I would be interested in DD's- I assume you accept Standing Orders. Only concern is the length of time to match funds up to a week so far but understand the process so will wait patiently!!
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Post by df on Dec 7, 2018 22:40:51 GMT
FYI - We released a new Lending settings page this week - any feedback welcome. We hope you'll find it a lot more intuitive than its unruly predecessor. Also note we've released a new Add money page. Again, any feedback good or bad is welcome. While I'm here... Question on adding money - how important/useful would offering Direct Debit for regular investments be to you? My answer is YES! It would be very useful and important. I'll be one of the first to set up DD to LW. It is very useful for people who deal with bank accounts that require DD's. I use RS's DD and I think this is the only one currently available from p2p. LW would be a great addition. Can't give any feedback for new features. They look good, but I can't remember what the previous pages looked like. I don't log in very often, there's no need - LW seems to work like a well oiled machine
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Post by df on Dec 7, 2018 22:55:57 GMT
FYI - We released a new Lending settings page this week - any feedback welcome. We hope you'll find it a lot more intuitive than its unruly predecessor. Also note we've released a new Add money page. Again, any feedback good or bad is welcome. While I'm here... Question on adding money - how important/useful would offering Direct Debit for regular investments be to you? Only concern is the length of time to match funds up to a week so far but understand the process so will wait patiently!! One week cash drag for new funds doesn't make a lot of difference if you intend to invest long term.
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