Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 21, 2018 0:39:09 GMT
Perhaps FS might Listen to its investors if we can come up with useful suggestions that could improve the platform. I hope by starting this we can get some good suggestions.
This should be an adult discussion so lets get all the negative doom merchants out of the way. Yes we all want our money back on time and all defaulters crucified and our money returned by selling their and their family’s organs on the black market.
Now I will kick things off My suggestions Lets start on December 1st All interest rates to investors reduced by 2% interest paid by borrowers remains the same. That money placed in a interest earning ring fenced contingency account belonging to investors At start of loan FS request exit strategy.
At 3 months FS request updates on strategy
At 6 Months if loan not repaid or evidence of imminent repayment provided and no Interest paid to renew
the loan is defaulted and bonus equivalent to BOE base rate is added.
At 7 months nothing changes. Receivers are appointed or asset ownership transferred to FS this prevents LTV increasing to a point where accrued interest makes default more likely as an asset is transferred when there is at least 28% equity remaining. Associated fees to be paid from contingency fund so there is no reluctance on FS’s part in pressing ahead with legal action.
FS on acquiring asset pay the investors 100% of capital from contingency fund along with the BOE rate interest for the month (a tiny amount but in line with bank deposit)
FS manage asset eg. Sell/build out etc.
FS would seek to recover contingency fund capital plus interest.
If recovered money gets full capital and interest >5% but <8% the original investors get that interest. However if more is paid investor interest is capped at 8% any excess paid to contingency fund. This would give FS the incentive to be perhaps a little more diligent in selecting borrowers.
The advantage is that investors can be assured at least capital return with a little interest.
By only selecting good borrowers loans will fill easily and any borrowers trying to pull a fast one would not be able to drag things out with investor money.
When the contingency fund reaches 50% of lent capital then loans from that point on that default would see their investors paid in full capital + interest at 7 Month point.
This should make FS to investors seeking a 8-13% return an attractive proposition. It should also make the platform less attractive to those seeking borrow easy money.
Were FS to take 1% less for their part and put into contingency fund until the contingency fund reached 250% of capital lent that would go a long way to show investors that their own profit made from our money is important.
Once the contingency fund reaches 100% of money lent. The contribution would drop and interest rates rise by 1% and in the future as fund continues to rise interest rates would finally reach their current levels. FS would continue contribute 1% too fund so that it maintains a rising total
After fund reaches 200% an annual bonus equal too 50 % sum over 200% Is paid to all investors pro rata for that year for each month you have been investing. The remaining 50% is paid to FS as by then they are the only contributor to the fund.
The increase in the contingency fund is of course dependent on FS getting loans that are unlikely to default with a loss of capital to the fund. Should the fund drop below 180% then interest on new loans would be reduced by 1% again until fund reaches 200%
Your comments and participation is definitely welcomed. Let us all make FS the best it can be.
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aj
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Post by aj on Aug 21, 2018 6:56:49 GMT
How to fix FS: 1. Stop offering new loans on all but the best opportunities (Watches, Jewellery, Low LTV residential property, etc). This will ensure that renewals and additional tranches of existing loans still have a hope of filling. It will also have the effect of a gradual increase in the quality of the loanbook. This will limit FS growth (which they wont like), but the team already look to be overloaded with the management of the current loanbook.
2. Make some headway on the non performing loans. There has been much discussion of this already and I don't think I have anything new to add on this one!
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 21, 2018 7:54:22 GMT
With regards to the proposed plan above my comments: a) Anything would be better than the annoying wait and see strategy. b) Problem is that the only Platform I know with a very good Contingency Fund is RS and in order to maintain it and still attract good quality borrowers they had to decrease the rates a lot (below 5% to the end user). So it is not something easy to build up or maintain. c) You could , maybe, think of this system with a new entity. With a 30%+ defaults/NPLs in your books, this is not a viable proposition (they would eat the contingency fund immediately). The numbers of expected FS defaults are STAGGERING, so it would require years at rates below 5% to lenders to build up a sufficient fund. As Usual no constructive input if you care to read the contingency fund which wouldronly apply to new loans from December 1 also relies on substantial change in FS approach. There would be an initial 3% paid into the fund or whatever it requires until it is sufficient To pay what should by then be a less variable collection of loans. Jeremy Paxman here again tell us your magic solution my little snowflake. I take it you have no comment on the early repayment made yesterday because that doesn’t fit into your negative outlook.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 21, 2018 8:13:10 GMT
How to fix FS: 1. Stop offering new loans on all but the best opportunities (Watches, Jewellery, Low LTV residential property, etc). This will ensure that renewals and additional tranches of existing loans still have a hope of filling. It will also have the effect of a gradual increase in the quality of the loanbook. This will limit FS growth (which they wont like), but the team already look to be overloaded with the management of the current loanbook. 2. Make some headway on the non performing loans. There has been much discussion of this already and I don't think I have anything new to add on this one! You are perfectly correct the fundamental under pinning thing that must change is the supply of quality loans and a robust Recovery procedure. Some people go on and on about 100% loss. That particular loan was a complete disaster however it was only for 10 1/2 thousand pounds A minuscule amount of the total loan book Platforms that appear to have better performance all have loans that have terms of years rather than just six months loans that have not been completed within a year on FS are few and far between and those that resulted in a loss of capital Are still under recovery plans. The simplified version of what I suggest is the loan period it’s actually one year for investors and that is when they are expect to be paid however the borrower should pay within six months we then have a six-month To sort out things and then pay the lenders after the year that they signed up for. 70% of loans would then would technically be paying back early Simples as Alexander says.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Aug 21, 2018 9:11:07 GMT
Jeremy Paxman here again tell us your magic solution my little snowflake. May I suggest sarcasm is not the best way to go about obtaining constructive input.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 21, 2018 9:18:19 GMT
Jeremy Paxman here again tell us your magic solution my little snowflake. May I suggest sarcasm is not the best way to go about obtaining constructive input. Have a look at the grumbler he has never answered the simple question he says we are all doomed and he has the solution as to where to put your investments when you have withdrawn from FS but he never tells also he says people are making large losses but has yet to demonstrate even one I have asked over and over again he just ignores the question and tells us all to get out thank you for taking the time to read this thread
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 21, 2018 9:49:24 GMT
For Property:
Max LTV 60%.
1st charge only.
Auction off at 9 months.
For jewellery:
Max LTV 70%
1st charge only
Auction off at 6 months.
In general shift business to 80% jewellery 20% spivvy property developers.
Oh, and no silly loans on unsellable power boats or land without planning permission!
Easy really but pigs might flippin fly.....
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 21, 2018 10:17:32 GMT
Have a look at the grumbler he has never answered the simple question he says we are all doomed and he has the solution as to where to put your investments when you have withdrawn from FS but he never tells also he says people are making large losses but has yet to demonstrate even one I have asked over and over again he just ignores the question and tells us all to get out thank you for taking the time to read this thread No, you are wrong once again: 1) I did not say 'we are all doomed'. I said that a lending Platform (be it a p2p lending or a bank) cannot survive with a 30%+ NPL. This staggering level shows that the lending and control mechanism simply does not work and require a radical change to be restored. I don't see FS taking a single step in any direction, let alone a change in their lending model.... 2) I said that with 30% NPLs in the books, most lenders have sums in 'unredeemed loans'. Given the current FS stance on this ('wait and see' or better 'wait and pray as we don't have any money to deal with them right now'), it is extremly likely that these NPL have brought losses and will bring new losses soon. This is what caused the loss of confidence of so many lenders and the slow primary and secondary market take. 3) I am not a financial adviser, but will never say to people they will get 9-11% without any risk as you said in the other thread. I am personally progressively getting out of P2P alltogether and have already stated I am investing in very carefully selected S&S (I added outside UK and US markets). Everyone is free to choose their investment channels. I too invest In several other vectors for profit But for the average to medium investor unless they do considerable research the likelihood of even making the 10% average is low You have previously said that to obtain protected returns of 5% was all that would be achievable 5% would be a good return for the large % of the population that only have less than £1000 in savings probably in a bank. Money goes to money for those of us lucky enough to have reasonable sums the opportunity is greater and expenses less. It is similar to the personal loan market where I can borrow at 2.9% others have to take 45 and 50% loans with a guarantor. We are all told that we should be paying off a mortgage why if you have £100,000 mortgage currently costing £115 a month interest only why would you remove money from an investment paying 1% a month in interest You’re making nearly £1000 a month on their money. By paying back you would only be saving £115 a month but every program you see is encouraging you to pay back your mortgage psychologically it may feel good but financially it makes no sense. Let’s all hope FC Employs sufficient qualified people to keep track and chase up all borrowers throughout the life of the loan. Giving investors monthly accurate verified updates on every loan should be a minimum requirement. Hopefully six months down the line we will be looking back at what used to be the bad all times like 17% mortgage rate we will then hope they will never return and everyone gets timely profitable payments Have a nice day
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Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 21, 2018 11:52:13 GMT
For Property: Max LTV 60%. 1st charge only. Auction off at 9 months. For jewellery: Max LTV 70% 1st charge only Auction off at 6 months. In general shift business to 80% jewellery 20% spivvy property developers. Oh, and no silly loans on unsellable power boats or land without planning permission! Easy really but pigs might flippin fly..... and thats all the property deals dead, 60 LTV is avail from main stream banks at base + 2 , you want your 12% but minimal risk ... not going to happen
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Aug 21, 2018 15:29:25 GMT
Godanubis At the moment a lot of renewal flags are not being set, this ties up FS money, or means FS are paying for underwriting while the loan fills with new investors. A simple short-term solution would be offer a 1% Cashback for renewals on the larger loans.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Aug 21, 2018 15:33:55 GMT
Godanubis At the moment a lot of renewal flags are not being set, this ties up FS money, or means FS are paying for underwriting while the loan fills with new investors. A simple short-term solution would be offer a 1% Cashback for renewals on the larger loans. Suspect you are right but how do you know ?
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Aug 21, 2018 15:42:10 GMT
Godanubis At the moment a lot of renewal flags are not being set, this ties up FS money, or means FS are paying for underwriting while the loan fills with new investors. A simple short-term solution would be offer a 1% Cashback for renewals on the larger loans. Suspect you are right but how do you know ? I don't know for sure, but I do know strongly suspect FS have the interest to renew at least one large loan, and haven't offered it for renewal yet, presumably because it could take weeks to refill.
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Post by charlata on Aug 21, 2018 16:10:40 GMT
I'm not convinced that FS needs to be fixed.
FS are novices to property lending, and offer some mis-priced loans. I and others have taken them up, only to later regret it. I've learnt a lot, and I believe that FS's loan management is continually improving. This may yet prove to be too little, too late. Depending on future recoveries, over 3 years on the platform, I've made 8-12%.
What does need fixing is the FS Board on here. Those who once helped with loans, have left, been banned or are simply drowned out by a rump of noisy posters who want to kill the platform. Barely-considered negativity subsumes the board from posters who are eternally surprised when a sale by auction yields substantially less than the residual value valuation.
I can see it's a difficult balance to strike. Some measure of criticism is healthy. IRL you can ostracize a bore, whereas on here you can only 'like'. A small group of enthusiastic fans can give the impression a poster's comments are highly valued, when in truth the majority just wish they'd either shut up or stick to what they know. I believe the time has come for a 'dislike' option.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Aug 21, 2018 16:47:10 GMT
<snip> I believe the time has come for a 'dislike' option. Déjà vu - it's been suggested before - p2pindependentforum.com/post/16802/thread. However, it's not something that is possible on Pro-Boards without a plug-in (which we don't as a rule use), and it wasn't terribly popular. IIrc someone said they had been on a Forum which did have such a system and chaos reigned as people used them to try and trash reputations etc. You don't have to look too hard to see the like system being manipulated here, and personally I wouldn't mind getting rid of it altogether. Forum members were in favour of it at the time though.
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Post by brightspark on Aug 21, 2018 16:55:37 GMT
Many negative posts about FS can be fixed by pursuing a policy whereby loans with serious repayment problems are pursued rather than kicking the cans down the road. The powerboats are examples. The loans are not for huge amounts but those who put substantial lumps of their savings into them (not me) are going to continue to voice their feelings until the issues are at least moving genuinely towards settlement. Investors do realise that resolution of difficult cases can take 2 years or more and will wait but not if they perceive they are being taken for a ride by borrowers with tacit agreement from the platform. As others have intimated users of the platform do get somewhat turned off by the continual whinging about the same old loans but that is because FS does not deal meaningfully with the backlog and is adding to it.
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