pom
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Post by pom on Aug 23, 2018 10:16:00 GMT
It's no wonder really me duck. When this forum started P2P was the shiny new thing, hip, trendy and THE place to put your hard-earned into. Roll on a few years and the shine has tarnished somewhat and flaked off altogether in places leaving people to ask themselves why on earth did I put my money into a half-built block of flats somewhere I'd never heard of, when I could have invested it in Google, Amazon or Microsoft? So it's no surprise that the thread below this one is full of people questioning how to transfer their money out of P2P as fast as they can. A few of us (from the old times) did try to point out that 12% and no losses (on the new fangled platforms) wouldn't last, and there would be anguish when losses started happening, but that fell on deaf ears at the time. I remember the outcry at the very first loss on Zopa, how could he take our money and not pay back...nothing changes. And the importance of diversification (I saw someone using Warren Buffet as justification for not doing so recently, well fine, but if any of us were potential WBs I seriously doubt we'd be here), never investing more than you could afford to lose or have tied up indefinitely, and keeping a wary open mind until a platform has a few defaults under their belt.....  I think too many people may well start off cautiously but then just get carried away when initial results are good. I have little sympathy though for anyone that blames the opinions of a bunch of anonymous amateur investors on the internet for their own over-investment however. At the end of the day crowd DD is a great thing, but it will only ever unearth stuff that is actually already "known", there will always be plenty of "unknowns" that can catch us out. And none of these big loans would have ever crossed the start line if BHs weren't also heavily invested, so just because they're not complaining I don't think we should assume any of them will have escaped these loans, they'll just be likely taking a more pragmatic approach because although they're likely investing significantly more cash than us it's probably much more insignificant to their future welfare. And I'm sure they have far better things to do than try and stitch up us minnows, it would take far too many of us to buy them out
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 23, 2018 10:27:37 GMT
I have no doubt whatsoever pom that the BHs have an "arrangement" with Platforms whereby they actually suffer very little, if at all, certainly nowhere near as much as "us".  |
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Aug 23, 2018 10:31:34 GMT
ahem' Independent Forum' . Its not the Reform Club. Personally I find the riff raff lighten the pomposity. Surely none of us are taking the loss of savings seriously. Why did we enter in upon P2P unless it was for the blue light buzz. More than 0.5% and SECURE,you've got to be joking.....
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Aug 23, 2018 10:39:49 GMT
I have no doubt whatsoever pom that the BHs have an "arrangement" with Platforms whereby they actually suffer very little, if at all, certainly nowhere near as much as "us". By amount invested many would consider me a BH. I can assure you that I have no special arrangements with any platform and between my Lendy defaults, MoneyThing defaults, Funding Secure defaults/endless late loans and the Collateral administration, my suffering has been deep and constant for the past year. 
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 23, 2018 10:51:42 GMT
Maybe you should consider joining a "Club" @monetus?  I have no idea what shenanigans may be attempted in the opaque P2P world but one that springs to mind could be along the lines of " OK BH, you've lost money on this & that Loan/s, but we'll give you a special extra 5++% on this & that New Loan/s to cover/alleviate your losses."
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Aug 23, 2018 11:20:12 GMT
And the importance of diversification (I saw someone using Warren Buffet as justification for not doing so recently, well fine, but if any of us were potential WBs I seriously doubt we'd be here), never investing more than you could afford to lose or have tied up indefinitely, and keeping a wary open mind until a platform has a few defaults under their belt.... I have replied to this on The State of This Forum thread in which I mention a few posts I have deleted without ever posting. One was for the thread on diversification, I decided that my post was too long and few on the thread would bother to read it. I include an extract below Warren Buffett normally seems diversified when he invests in risky Fixed income, unless he is being paid a premium to take that unusual risk. Edit: changed my link so that it shows the whole thread, not just my post.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 23, 2018 12:49:14 GMT
Think some of the disagreements on here are tame compered to other sites but negative posing about platforms etc is a part of any forums life and not just on here. And i can see in the future that the first big stock market crash will see many on MSE after 10 years of gains at their first loss moaning about their fund manager,or that they did not think a tracker could go down or the darling of MSE Vanguard is maybe losing money and thats after years of them saying P2P is a scam.
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Post by brightspark on Aug 23, 2018 13:26:01 GMT
The cause of whinging is not simply that investments have turned sour but certain platforms are tardy to take matters forward. Investors with potential losses thus have insult added to injury. What are small investors supposed to do apart from writing polite e-mails to the relevant platforms. The Ombudsman requires gross negligence to be proven before it will act and nobody else has an interest. The negative tenor of postings on this forum reflects very real frustrations. Instead of trying to suppress criticism guilty platforms should put their houses in order.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 23, 2018 13:28:42 GMT
One of the pleasures of life for me is posting positive comments on the Rebuildingsociety forum, and watching the trolls there shake themselves into action. Of course their presence drowns out discussion of new loans or developments on the Rebs site and renders that forum useless, but I do recommend it if you have five minutes spare.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 23, 2018 16:47:31 GMT
One of the pleasures of life for me is posting positive comments on the Rebuildingsociety forum, and watching the trolls there shake themselves into action. Of course their presence drowns out discussion of new loans or developments on the Rebs site and renders that forum useless, but I do recommend it if you have five minutes spare. Guess your avatar was well chosen!
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 23, 2018 17:14:50 GMT
I have no doubt whatsoever pom that the BHs have an "arrangement" with Platforms whereby they actually suffer very little, if at all, certainly nowhere near as much as "us". Yes but you have absolutely zero basis or evidence for this supposition but some sort of confirmation bias that others are making money at the expense of your losses. It's like me saying I don't believe in the moon landings because I wasn't there/born. I have 7 figure investments in some platforms but I still suffer if I get caught in a loan (which I have on more occasions than I would like to remember)....there is absolutely no payback elsewhere or no inside information. Yes the directors of a platform are perhaps more happy to discuss a situation with you than someone who is having a manic rant about £50 that is a couple of months late but there is no special treatment - save perhaps underwriting fees which anyone can get if they are willing to stump up a decent 6 figure sum into an individual loan (even then they're not that lucrative). The reason I do it is by not focusing too much on the individual hits and instead looking at the big picture - which still results in a reasonable return while diversifying me away from my other investments which are returning more.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Aug 23, 2018 19:29:48 GMT
I remain, unconvinced.  bg { PS / EDIT: I mean "In general", not you specifically bg, although who knows what on this website?!  ] |
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 23, 2018 19:53:43 GMT
The really big BHs just underwrite, sell, take their underwriting fee and move on they don't usually get caught in losses.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 23, 2018 21:39:37 GMT
The really big BHs just underwrite, sell, take their underwriting fee and move on they don't usually get caught in losses. Depends how quickly they default 
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 23, 2018 23:14:21 GMT
1. We are not rational creatures. 2. Most of us (but not all) place more weight on avoiding losses READ ME!!!!!!!. And if you can't stomach that read this, an excellent, approachable, interesting and well written book about, more or less, the same thing. Also read everything else Michael Lewis has ever written. 3. With at par fixed income / credit investing, there is no upside. I will say it again. There is no upside. The best you can hope for with an equity investment is a never ending increase in capital value and dividends, vis, for the sake of argument, Alphabet. The best you can hope for with an at par fixed income product is that they pay the coupon and don't default before the redemption date. Think about that for a second. Combine that with the departure to other shores of some long term forumites, the incoming tide of new forumites, and the.... ahhemm, "maturing", of some loan books, and, well, who's surprised? Oh, and the complete shambles that some platforms have displayed to date, that the longer in tooth of us saw coming, and warned about, much to the annoyance of the bulls. Result? Insight down. Positive news down. Negative news up. Who'd a thunk it? |
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