Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Nov 14, 2019 18:15:40 GMT
"The administration have a duty to recovery the most for all investors if their proposals have that net result then that would be good." I am not sure that is true. Administrators have a duty to act in the best interests of creditors as a whole, and will attempt to realise the highest returns for all groups if rescue is not possible. The trouble is that investors are not creditors. The administrators propose to treat investors as investors, I have no idea what that even means. And the administrators say that apart from the last 5 loans investors are not even legally the beneficiaries. It's a legal mess. I am not going to assume that the administrators have any duty or even relationship in law with investors yet. They are seeking to with their proposals but at present I have no idea legally what the relationship is. By default investors as preferred creditors investors would have to be fully repaid before the unsecured creditors, similarly to traunches in some loans.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 14, 2019 18:25:11 GMT
Sure looks that way to me - also I am interested in the relationship both management and financial between FS and Crowdlords. I have looked at Crowdlords Accounts and the balance sheet is not exactly positive so if you are thinking of investing in them you know what my advice is...
Also it looks to me that these directors were possibly earning commission for sourcing funds for property developers. Now whether this is true or not I don't know but I think it needs to be looked into and also I am not convinced some of these directors were not also property developers - nothing wrong with that of course - as long as the 2 roles did not conflict...
This is what I think will happen
FS etc will blame the art dealer for their problems - not that they should have prevented this
FCA will do cock-all which is the only thing they are qualified for - they will get various gongs.
The administrators will ditch the loan book as quickly as possible but 25% or so will be frozen by the courts due to problems with title etc - again due to FS's gross incompetence
The payout will be pathetic (about 50%?) and in several stages - the first stage say mid 2020 when houses etc are sold - the rest will be much later after legal problems etc are sorted out
The Police will do nothing - the art loan £2.3m will be lost - only ray of hope is that the FBI get their hands on this muppet dealer . All in all a totally shabby and disgusting affair where decent people have been shafted and the authorities were amiss in letting these characters anywhere near a lending platform.
Feeling depressed now - I need a drink!
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pip
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Post by pip on Nov 14, 2019 18:36:27 GMT
I am not sure that is true. Administrators have a duty to act in the best interests of creditors as a whole, and will attempt to realise the highest returns for all groups if rescue is not possible. The trouble is that investors are not creditors. The administrators propose to treat investors as investors, I have no idea what that even means. And the administrators say that apart from the last 5 loans investors are not even legally the beneficiaries. It's a legal mess. I am not going to assume that the administrators have any duty or even relationship in law with investors yet. They are seeking to with their proposals but at present I have no idea legally what the relationship is. By default investors as preferred creditors investors would have to be fully repaid before the unsecured creditors, similarly to traunches in some loans. I think you are getting confused between creditors of FS and creditors of the company or person who the loan was issued to. - For lenders, FS are an agent who facilitated loans between the lender and third parties. Investors are not a creditor of FS. Certainly not in the conventional sense, the administrator wants to make lenders de facto creditors. There are other preferred creditors of FS, lenders are not one of them, we would firmly be in the unsecured creditors bucket if we accepted the proposals. See the order of payments in event of administration www.companyrescue.co.uk/guides-knowledge/guides/who-gets-paid-first-when-a-company-goes-into-liquidation-or-administration-3731/ - Lenders may be creditors of the company or person loans were issued to, however the administrators report indicates that due to the wording of FS' agreements with borrowers, FS lenders were only the beneficial recipient for the most recent 5 loans issued. i.e. not sure lenders legally are owed money at all! - Lenders cash, should, in theory be ring-fenced and protected, although seems doubtful if it is and administrators seem to want to remove the ring-fence protection. Honestly things are bad. Real bad.
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pip
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Post by pip on Nov 14, 2019 18:44:52 GMT
Sure looks that way to me - also I am interested in the relationship both management and financial between FS and Crowdlords. I have looked at Crowdlords Accounts and the balance sheet is not exactly positive so if you are thinking of investing in them you know what my advice is... Also it looks to me that these directors were possibly earning commission for sourcing funds for property developers. Now whether this is true or not I don't know but I think it needs to be looked into and also I am not convinced some of these directors were not also property developers - nothing wrong with that of course - as long as the 2 roles did not conflict... This is what I think will happen FS etc will blame the art dealer for their problems - not that they should have prevented this FCA will do cock-all which is the only thing they are qualified for - they will get various gongs. The administrators will ditch the loan book as quickly as possible but 25% or so will be frozen by the courts due to problems with title etc - again due to FS's gross incompetence The payout will be pathetic (about 50%?) and in several stages - the first stage say mid 2020 when houses etc are sold - the rest will be much later after legal problems etc are sorted out The Police will do nothing - the art loan £2.3m will be lost - only ray of hope is that the FBI get their hands on this muppet dealer . All in all a totally shabby and disgusting affair where decent people have been shafted and the authorities were amiss in letting these characters anywhere near a lending platform. Feeling depressed now - I need a drink! Adrian if I get 50% I will eat my hat! Anything over 5% would surprise me. Investors are not even the beneficiaries of any loan apart from those issues after September 2019. It wouldn't surprise me if we got absolutely nothing.
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Nov 14, 2019 20:24:07 GMT
Sure looks that way to me - also I am interested in the relationship both management and financial between FS and Crowdlords. I have looked at Crowdlords Accounts and the balance sheet is not exactly positive so if you are thinking of investing in them you know what my advice is... Also it looks to me that these directors were possibly earning commission for sourcing funds for property developers. Now whether this is true or not I don't know but I think it needs to be looked into and also I am not convinced some of these directors were not also property developers - nothing wrong with that of course - as long as the 2 roles did not conflict... This is what I think will happen FS etc will blame the art dealer for their problems - not that they should have prevented this FCA will do cock-all which is the only thing they are qualified for - they will get various gongs. The administrators will ditch the loan book as quickly as possible but 25% or so will be frozen by the courts due to problems with title etc - again due to FS's gross incompetence The payout will be pathetic (about 50%?) and in several stages - the first stage say mid 2020 when houses etc are sold - the rest will be much later after legal problems etc are sorted out The Police will do nothing - the art loan £2.3m will be lost - only ray of hope is that the FBI get their hands on this muppet dealer . All in all a totally shabby and disgusting affair where decent people have been shafted and the authorities were amiss in letting these characters anywhere near a lending platform. Feeling depressed now - I need a drink! Adrian if I get 50% I will eat my hat! Anything over 5% would surprise me. Investors are not even the beneficiaries of any loan apart from those issues after September 2019. It wouldn't surprise me if we got absolutely nothing. Paddy Ashdown comes to mind. Ashburn road London paid in full today after administration.
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Post by simert on Nov 15, 2019 8:47:20 GMT
Another loan seems to have repaid:1013434811L. 5 quid back... Military/time piece one that was actively being paid down... So things still moving. I had some of this loan repay too, but can't withdraw the money. Assume you're in the same position?
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kielbasa
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Post by kielbasa on Nov 15, 2019 9:16:15 GMT
Investors are not even the beneficiaries of any loan apart from those issues after September 2019. Is that correct? I though FS was security trustee and that we were the legal lenders.
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paulb
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Post by paulb on Nov 15, 2019 10:46:54 GMT
Is that correct? I though FS was security trustee and that we were the legal lenders. That's how it should work, but there are indications that this is not in fact the case.
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kielbasa
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Post by kielbasa on Nov 15, 2019 12:04:33 GMT
Is that correct? I though FS was security trustee and that we were the legal lenders. That's how it should work, but there are indications that this is not in fact the case. I'm probably a bit behind the curve, but are the "indications" coming from the administrators (e.g. in the documents issued to lenders)?
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Nov 16, 2019 12:28:36 GMT
Most will be V interested to know that the residence of one of the original but now ex Directors (who I believe has had his assets frozen) is valued in the region of nearly £3 Big Ones! Also of interest is that everyone at FS has resigned except Hackett, the last man standing, who is still listed as "live". What does that mean?! Just search on FundingSecure at www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ ............... "Average house price in the postcode HP14 ***£2,945,000"
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Nov 16, 2019 13:02:45 GMT
Most will be V interested to know that the residence of one of the original but now ex Directors (who I believe has had his assets frozen) is valued in the region of nearly £3 Big Ones! Also of interest is that everyone at FS has resigned except Hackett, the last man standing, who is still listed as "live". What does that mean?! Just search on FundingSecure at www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ ............... "Average house price in the postcode HP14 ***£2,945,000"Doesn't make much of a dent in 80 big ones though
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james21
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Post by james21 on Nov 16, 2019 13:40:35 GMT
Most will be V interested to know that the residence of one of the original but now ex Directors (who I believe has had his assets frozen) is valued in the region of nearly £3 Big Ones! Also of interest is that everyone at FS has resigned except Hackett, the last man standing, who is still listed as "live". What does that mean?! Just search on FundingSecure at www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ ............... "Average house price in the postcode HP14 ***£2,945,000"regarding hacket, he is refereed to as "director" in the proposal doc, and has been retained by the administrators to assist at a salary agreed between the parties, as per the Q&A
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Post by brightspark on Nov 16, 2019 13:52:45 GMT
Poacher turned gamekeeper? Could never get an answer about when the powerboat loan was to be sorted.
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paulb
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Post by paulb on Nov 17, 2019 15:33:49 GMT
That's how it should work, but there are indications that this is not in fact the case. I'm probably a bit behind the curve, but are the "indications" coming from the administrators (e.g. in the documents issued to lenders)? Yes, the initial report from the administrators does indicate there is potential uncertainty over the status of most (all but the most recent 5) loans -see section 11 of Annex 2. Section 12 states that the problem was known about since October of last year (by FS management, and possibly implied elsewhere, the FCA).
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Post by dan1 on Jan 27, 2020 12:39:50 GMT
Paperwork from FS
If any lenders are in possession of the following items, can you please send me a copy, or contact me to discuss: Items such as: 1. Borrowers contracts – completed or the blank contracts. 2. Cashflow projections or "forecast recovery sheets", or similar – these were shown to some FS lenders to show the financial health of FS. If you have any such material, please forward to me. 3. Any written guarantees from ex-Directors or FS: It’s widely known that FS promised various enticements to the lenders to either keep us happy or quiet. If any lender has anything in writing from FS promising to “make good” any shortfalls or to “cover” any shortfalls, please also send along. The above items (should they be deemed suitable) maybe possibly be used in litigation against the former Directors, or supplied to Litigation Funders as extra ammunition to enable them to extract funds from the borrowers and/or sent to the FCA as part of this case. Thx all. Mucho P2P - this post is no criticism of you or your efforts over at FSAG. The quoted post puts so much of the goings on over the last few years on the FS board here into context for me. It's enlightening to have stuff that went on out of the spotlight surface. It puts into context all of the PMs I received over the years, some of which resulted from this thread but more often than not in support of the platform. I always knew that investors weren't necessarily all getting the same deal from FS, or at least the same deal as the one advertised. I suspect that's true for all platforms to a certain degree. A somewhat trivial example can be found here (http://p2pindependentforum.com/post/286690/thread) - not all was as it seemed.
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