Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 3, 2018 22:34:33 GMT
There is a lot of complaining about loans being late and FS being slow to default.
For all those that want their capital out FS could introduce an extended secondary market. if a loan is more than 30 days late then it can be offered for sale at cost price without accrued interest.
That way only those with the inclination to invest in the loan would buy the part at cost the seller would loose no capital. The loan can be bought and sold at any time thereafter at cost.
Only at the end would the investors that had faith in the loan would either see a loss of capital or perhaps it’s return plus accrued interest. At which point tax would be due if relevant.
If loans were only a few days over those that took the risk would see large APR returns.
The trick would be to buy just before loan finally repaid. (Crystal ball required)
Of course you could just keep your parts and run it’s course.
Would you buy or sell under those conditions ?
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Post by Ace on Sept 4, 2018 0:44:05 GMT
Firstly, I'm not in FS. It was on my watch-list for some time, but the balance of views on here, and FS's refusal to answer/deal with, what appear to me to be legitimate concerns has convinced me that there are better platforms around.
If I were, I would be equally happy to buy or sell under your stated terms depending on what my own DD revealed about a particular loan. However, I feel that your scheme is unnecessarily inflexible. I would far rather deal with a platform that had a fully functional SM where parties were able to deal at whatever premium or discount they could agree on; including where a loan was at default, so long as both parties were made aware of the current state of the loan.
I realise that your scheme tries to give a cleaner exit for someone wanting to get out, and that a fully functioning SM might not be quite as clean depending on the accrued interest assignment policy. If this really was an overriding concern then a suitable policy could easily be devised. However, even for someone who is very keen to exit, surely it's the capital that is their primary concern. Whatever the accrued interest assignment policy was, the discount could be adjusted to account for it.
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bg
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Post by bg on Sept 4, 2018 6:00:10 GMT
If I were, I would be equally happy to buy or sell under your stated terms depending on what my own DD revealed about a particular loan. However, I feel that your scheme is unnecessarily inflexible. I would far rather deal with a platform that had a fully functional SM where parties were able to deal at whatever premium or discount they could agree on; including where a loan was at default, so long as both parties were made aware of the current state of the loan. Does any platform allow dealing in defaulted loans at any premium the seller/buyer agrees? I have invested in 9 or 10 platforms in my time and as far as I'm aware none of them allow this.
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duck
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Post by duck on Sept 4, 2018 6:40:57 GMT
If I were, I would be equally happy to buy or sell under your stated terms depending on what my own DD revealed about a particular loan. However, I feel that your scheme is unnecessarily inflexible. I would far rather deal with a platform that had a fully functional SM where parties were able to deal at whatever premium or discount they could agree on; including where a loan was at default, so long as both parties were made aware of the current state of the loan. Does any platform allow dealing in defaulted loans at any premium the seller/buyer agrees? I have invested in 9 or 10 platforms in my time and as far as I'm aware none of them allow this. Bondora does although that is not a recommendation (I currently have 1128 defaults)
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kielbasa
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Post by kielbasa on Sept 4, 2018 6:43:53 GMT
If I were, I would be equally happy to buy or sell under your stated terms depending on what my own DD revealed about a particular loan. However, I feel that your scheme is unnecessarily inflexible. I would far rather deal with a platform that had a fully functional SM where parties were able to deal at whatever premium or discount they could agree on; including where a loan was at default, so long as both parties were made aware of the current state of the loan. Does any platform allow dealing in defaulted loans at any premium the seller/buyer agrees? I have invested in 9 or 10 platforms in my time and as far as I'm aware none of them allow this. Maybe platforms don't allow this to avoid abuse of the tax rules, e.g. selling it to your own ISA at a massive discount.
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jo
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Post by jo on Sept 4, 2018 6:59:29 GMT
Does any platform allow dealing in defaulted loans at any premium the seller/buyer agrees? I have invested in 9 or 10 platforms in my time and as far as I'm aware none of them allow this. Bondora does although that is not a recommendation (I currently have 1128 defaults) In the future, when the p2p industry is dealing with multiple executors simultaneously, they'll be tripping-over themselves to offer this. If they weren't in denial, they'd realise it.
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arby
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Post by arby on Sept 4, 2018 7:15:17 GMT
There are a lot of loans where a 50% discount on the cost price would be very reasonable. Two informed investors could well agree on such a price, however could it be seen as FS facilitating a sale to an uninformed private investor who then goes on to lose money and can claim they were unaware of the risk? That's my only explanation for not allowing such sales.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Sept 4, 2018 7:17:04 GMT
If I were, I would be equally happy to buy or sell under your stated terms depending on what my own DD revealed about a particular loan. However, I feel that your scheme is unnecessarily inflexible. I would far rather deal with a platform that had a fully functional SM where parties were able to deal at whatever premium or discount they could agree on; including where a loan was at default, so long as both parties were made aware of the current state of the loan. Does any platform allow dealing in defaulted loans at any premium the seller/buyer agrees? I have invested in 9 or 10 platforms in my time and as far as I'm aware none of them allow this. Not sure if in defaulted loans, but Crowd2fund allows dealing with late or “In Arrangement” loans etc, one on there now was 10.5% but offered at 15%, and I find the 30 day left cut-off annoying on FS. I suspect it has to do with the unusual handling of interest in SM loans. Everything has a value, and if one needs out, the fair market value is what a willing seller will sell to a willing buyer at. This might need to be without the interest element on problem loans, but that can all be reflected in the selling price of any distressed loan. FS, time for a rethink in your liquidity ethos methinks!
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 4, 2018 7:26:19 GMT
I would sell late loans like hot potatoes (on any platform). I wouldn't buy.
I don't think platforms would take the risk of it being deemed mis-selling if buyers didn't really understand the risk of buying late loans that would have a much higher likelihood of default.
(I was in FS, but got out a while ago)
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 4, 2018 8:34:02 GMT
Bondora does although that is not a recommendation (I currently have 1128 defaults) In the future, when the p2p industry is dealing with multiple executors simultaneously, they'll be tripping-over themselves to offer this. If they weren't in denial, they'd realise it. You have discovered the big problem in the illiquidity of P2P. My mother requires about 3K a month from her investments in P2P to cover care home costs. I can manage this at the moment from loans repaying or selling if required. She is 92 and won’t be around forever however som of her current investments might be meaning probate will be a nightmare. By being able to sell late loans this problem would be reduced. I am sure I’m not the only one in this position and there will be a lot of money tied up that the cost of recovery by probate lawyers may be more than the actual funds recovered
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 4, 2018 8:38:12 GMT
I would sell late loans like hot potatoes (on any platform). I wouldn't buy. I don't think platforms would take the risk of it being deemed mis-selling if buyers didn't really understand the risk of buying late loans that would have a much higher likelihood of default. (I was in FS, but got out a while ago) Lendy gives you this warning when you buy their late loans. That’s why they give the bonus. The amounts lost would be restricted to loan part size currently you can loose part + interest if you buy accrued interest befoe term end.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 4, 2018 8:39:27 GMT
Maybe platforms should have a charity 'lender' you can donate unsellable loans to, if you want to wind up an account quickly. If any recoveries are made they go to a good cause at least.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 4, 2018 8:46:35 GMT
Maybe platforms should have a charity 'lender' you can donate unsellable loans to, if you want to wind up an account quickly. If any recoveries are made they go to a good cause at least. Nice thought but there are many demonstrating on here that they want every last penny plus a pound of flesh from their investments. They can’t come to terms with a loss let alone voluntarily give it away. Albeit to people obviously considerably worse of than us who are in the lucky position to have money to invest. Perhaps we should reflect more on our fortunate positions and stress less on increasing those good fortunes
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kielbasa
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Post by kielbasa on Sept 4, 2018 12:14:54 GMT
In the future, when the p2p industry is dealing with multiple executors simultaneously, they'll be tripping-over themselves to offer this. If they weren't in denial, they'd realise it. You have discovered the big problem in the illiquidity of P2P. My mother requires about 3K a month from her investments in P2P to cover care home costs. I can manage this at the moment from loans repaying or selling if required. She is 92 and won’t be around forever however som of her current investments might be meaning probate will be a nightmare. By being able to sell late loans this problem would be reduced. I am sure I’m not the only one in this position and there will be a lot of money tied up that the cost of recovery by probate lawyers may be more than the actual funds recovered Excuse my ignorance. How are such illiquid assets such as P2P loans dealt with in probate, both practically and from a valuation perspective for inheritance tax?
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 5, 2018 0:39:41 GMT
You have discovered the big problem in the illiquidity of P2P. My mother requires about 3K a month from her investments in P2P to cover care home costs. I can manage this at the moment from loans repaying or selling if required. She is 92 and won’t be around forever however som of her current investments might be meaning probate will be a nightmare. By being able to sell late loans this problem would be reduced. I am sure I’m not the only one in this position and there will be a lot of money tied up that the cost of recovery by probate lawyers may be more than the actual funds recovered Excuse my ignorance. How are such illiquid assets such as P2P loans dealt with in probate, both practically and from a valuation perspective for inheritance tax? I think HMRC would give them a value and charge tax as appropriate it would then be up to you to argue. If defaulted then no problem. Like when you take £3000 from a SIPP in April you will be taxed as if you were taking that every month ie. £36000 and tax you on that amount. You then have to wait till end of tax year to claim it back. Once loans pay/default you would then claim tax back. FISA are not inheritance tax exempt.
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