withnell
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Post by withnell on Oct 3, 2018 5:01:50 GMT
Is this the definite answer? I thinks it deserves to be looked at by experts.
My understanding is that Collateral was listed on the FCA website, how are we supposed to know it was not 36H compliant.
Even if it was the correct company, interim permission did not confirm 36H compliance. Though if could be argued that how is the average Retail investor expected to know what is 36H and what is not - plain english condition requirements are going to bite HMRC at some point!
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capucino
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Post by capucino on Oct 3, 2018 12:44:56 GMT
Is this the definite answer? I thinks it deserves to be looked at by experts.
My understanding is that Collateral was listed on the FCA website, how are we supposed to know it was not 36H compliant.
Even if it was the correct company, interim permission did not confirm 36H compliance. Fair enough, I think this pretty much answers it.
Also, you can offset bad debt only, not losses due to platform failure.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 3, 2018 15:34:55 GMT
Even if it was the correct company, interim permission did not confirm 36H compliance. Fair enough, I think this pretty much answers it.
Also, you can offset bad debt only, not losses due to platform failure.
But surely any eventual losses at COL will be due to bad debt? (Give or take any haircut if admin fees exceed available COL funds/fees).
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capucino
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Post by capucino on Oct 3, 2018 15:40:40 GMT
But surely any eventual losses at COL will be due to bad debt? (Give or take any haircut if admin fees exceed available COL funds/fees). I think HMRC refers to p2p debt, not platform debt
In any case, interim permission is not good enough. (not that collateral had interim permission)
One interesting point is if we can offset losses in Collateral against income from other Collateral loans.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Oct 10, 2018 15:19:48 GMT
I think we need to be rather more circumspect. AFAIK, the attendees representing Lenders are doing so in their own free time, and many are very knowledgeable & informed. If they get a lunch out of it and reimbursement of reasonable travel expenses then I'd say it's a good deal for us? Have no problem with a free lunch for the reps (really!) unless its the tip of an iceberg of how BDO conduct themselves. I was rather hoping to get an insight into BDO's behaviour/attitude/lifestyle but with NDAs and seemingly not much interest in that I guess it won't be forthcoming. I object to them having lunch paid for by my investments. It's voluntary work not a paid job. They all sound capable of buying a sandwich and packet of crisps in Boots out of their own pockets.
Anyway, I heard it was sandwiches for lunch. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if we are charged a 3 figure sum for those sandwiches. I've seen it tried on before on fee claims in compensation cases where the other side is responsible for the fees. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that sarnies means they are being careful with our money. I'd want to see the bill.
Not all of the COL victims are fatcats. I know from 1 or 2 PMs that there are a few people suffering some hardship as a result of this COL debacle. (Yes they were very foolish but were in need of interest to live on , capital rich, income poor ...).
Anyway, us investors are being charged £500 an hour by BDO so I predict they, and the people in their cosy club of advisors, will end up being the only winners in this protracted saga - unless there is a legal challenge to their rates.
But, on that subject, I see a fatcat lawyer has been fined £30,000 for trying to charge the rip off rate of £400 an hour. His fees were described as 'beyond obscene'. The extortionate fee claims were referred to his professional body -
Extract: "A lawyer charged the NHS £400 an hour as he sued the organisation over a medical negligence claim. Government lawyers described Andrew Good's monster bills as "beyond obscene" and claimed his firm over-charged for work. And Mr Good has now been fined £30,000 after it was ruled his Grimsby's legal firm's charges were excessive."
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Oct 10, 2018 15:45:31 GMT
Have no problem with a free lunch for the reps (really!) unless its the tip of an iceberg of how BDO conduct themselves. I was rather hoping to get an insight into BDO's behaviour/attitude/lifestyle but with NDAs and seemingly not much interest in that I guess it won't be forthcoming. I object to them having lunch paid for by my investments. It's voluntary work not a paid job. They all sound capable of buying a sandwich and packet of crisps in Boots out of their own pockets.
Anyway, I heard it was sandwiches for lunch. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if we are charged a 3 figure sum for those sandwiches. I've seen it tried on before on fee claims in compensation cases where the other side is responsible for the fees. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that sarnies means they are being careful with our money. I'd want to see the bill.
Not all of the COL victims are fatcats. I know from 1 or 2 PMs that there are a few people suffering some hardship as a result of this COL debacle. (Yes they were very foolish but were in need of interest to live on , capital rich, income poor ...).
Anyway, us investors are being charged £500 an hour by BDO so I predict they, and the people in their cosy club of advisors, will end up being the only winners in this protracted saga - unless there is a legal challenge to their rates.
But, on that subject, I see a fatcat lawyer has been fined £30,000 for trying to charge the rip off rate of £400 an hour. His fees were described as 'beyond obscene'. The extortionate fee claims were referred to his professional body -
Extract: "A lawyer charged the NHS £400 an hour as he sued the organisation over a medical negligence claim. Government lawyers described Andrew Good's monster bills as "beyond obscene" and claimed his firm over-charged for work. And Mr Good has now been fined £30,000 after it was ruled his Grimsby's legal firm's charges were excessive."
Gosh, I'd hate to see your reaction if you heard what partners charge for their time at Magic Circle law firms... I was £400/hour as a 1st year!
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Post by bobthebuilder on Oct 10, 2018 16:05:12 GMT
Anyway, us investors are being charged £500 an hour by BDO GeorgeT Sorry to wind you up but BDO's rates are actually up to £720 per hour, not £500. Appendix 12 of the Joint Administrators' Proposals dated 21/6/18 states that London partners are charged out at £600 per hour, but this is ex VAT. Still, according to the same appendix these rates were agreed with the FCA prior to BDO's appointment and the rates are discounted from their standard charge out rates. There - doesn't that make you feel better?
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Oct 10, 2018 16:08:39 GMT
The main difference being your clients knew the rates you were charged out at beforehand & could choose whether they were reasonable or not before engaging the services of your firm. In this case investors have had BDO forced upon them by the FCA & subsequent court case - no choice of firms or the exorbitant fees that they claim as reasonable & certainly no say in how long BDO are going to decide they can spin this whole farce out for. What incentive have they got to conclude this??
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Oct 10, 2018 16:15:58 GMT
The main difference being your clients knew the rates you were charged out at beforehand & could choose whether they were reasonable or not before engaging the services of your firm. In this case investors have had BDO forced upon them by the FCA & subsequent court case - no choice of firms or the exorbitant fees that they claim as reasonable & certainly no say in how long BDO are going to decide they can spin this whole farce out for. What incentive have they got to conclude this?? Point taken - but (personally) I would rather have the best in the industry working on this. For the same reason that clients choose to pay those incredibly high Magic Circle law firm rates - they know it's worth it. Yes, you can talk about perverse incentives for inefficient working, but this is true of any industry which tends to charge by the hour. This is also one of the reasons we have the committee: to monitor this and try to keep things sensible. We were all greatly encouraged by the progress report re the first committee meeting, and I can't help but think that it may not have been quite so rosey with a cheaper firm. This is difficult work, and I want good people doing it. I'm happy for them to be paid accordingly.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 10, 2018 16:40:43 GMT
The main difference being your clients knew the rates you were charged out at beforehand & could choose whether they were reasonable or not before engaging the services of your firm. In this case investors have had BDO forced upon them by the FCA & subsequent court case - no choice of firms or the exorbitant fees that they claim as reasonable & certainly no say in how long BDO are going to decide they can spin this whole farce out for. What incentive have they got to conclude this?? Point taken - but (personally) I would rather have the best in the industry working on this. For the same reason that clients choose to pay those incredibly high Magic Circle law firm rates - they know it's worth it. Yes, you can talk about perverse incentives for inefficient working, but this is true of any industry which tends to charge by the hour. This is also one of the reasons we have the committee: to monitor this and try to keep things sensible. We were all greatly encouraged by the progress report re the first committee meeting, and I can't help but think that it may not have been quite so rosey with a cheaper firm. This is difficult work, and I want good people doing it. I'm happy for them to be paid accordingly. selling the loan book to (bondmason or whoever) might well have been better for lenders
What do you think the bill will be? As a proportion of all investors funds?
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Post by dan1 on Oct 10, 2018 18:54:19 GMT
The main difference being your clients knew the rates you were charged out at beforehand & could choose whether they were reasonable or not before engaging the services of your firm. In this case investors have had BDO forced upon them by the FCA & subsequent court case - no choice of firms or the exorbitant fees that they claim as reasonable & certainly no say in how long BDO are going to decide they can spin this whole farce out for. What incentive have they got to conclude this?? Point taken - but (personally) I would rather have the best in the industry working on this. For the same reason that clients choose to pay those incredibly high Magic Circle law firm rates - they know it's worth it. Yes, you can talk about perverse incentives for inefficient working, but this is true of any industry which tends to charge by the hour. This is also one of the reasons we have the committee: to monitor this and try to keep things sensible. We were all greatly encouraged by the progress report re the first committee meeting, and I can't help but think that it may not have been quite so rosey with a cheaper firm. This is difficult work, and I want good people doing it. I'm happy for them to be paid accordingly. Not all of us, no
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 10, 2018 21:01:48 GMT
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Oct 11, 2018 0:23:55 GMT
I can't believe there is still so much meaningless twaddle still being discussed. Just let BDO get on with their job.
We get good feedback from those in the know on here.
Hashing up old fears and rumors does no good.
Let's just wait and see what we get then we can moan or cheer.
All take a chill pill and relax.
Mentally count it as a 100% loss and things can only get better
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tony
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Post by tony on Oct 11, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
I can't believe there is still so much meaningless twaddle still being discussed. Just let BDO get on with their job.
We get good feedback from those in the know on here.
Hashing up old fears and rumors does no good.
Let's just wait and see what we get then we can moan or cheer.
All take a chill pill and relax.
Mentally count it as a 100% loss and things can only get better
Providing you do not become clinically depressed at the thought!
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Oct 12, 2018 12:32:53 GMT
I can't believe there is still so much meaningless twaddle still being discussed. Just let BDO get on with their job.
We get good feedback from those in the know on here.
Hashing up old fears and rumors does no good.
Let's just wait and see what we get then we can moan or cheer.
All take a chill pill and relax.
Mentally count it as a 100% loss and things can only get better
If its ok with you I am starting at 50%
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