dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on May 15, 2020 11:18:02 GMT
Right , ok. Thanks a lot. I keep trying to get information from AC but I haven't been getting any response from them. There is also this information - Lender/Borrower Rate 8.50% / 9.90%. What is this exactly referring too? Is the 9.90% annual return when purchasing loan at the actual Best Rate ? I'm trying to move some of my funds into AC but their UI is just one big jigsaw. Compering to MT, Ly, ABl, FS or even Coll, AC creates such a headache, not even mentioning their calculation that looks bit like this 1.2000000000000000000444560000067000. I mean how the .... we supposed to .... . It can't even fit into my excel on 12" laptop. The lender rate is the gross rate you will receive while the borrower rate is the rate the borrower pays. So in your example the difference is 1.4% which is in effect AC's profit. The site is a new version and they are after feedback, I agree its very confusing for new users. A few people (with deep pockets) I have shown the site to have been put off by the apparent complexity but in reality its pretty simple to use the manual account when you know what you are doing. chris prob even more important to get feedback from new users like k6 as it is from established users....otherwise new users won't persevere.
bg said "So in your example the difference is 1.4% which is in effect AC's profit." - Actually that's AC's monitoring fee, so not profit, rather revenue. AC also charge the borrower entry and exit fees, there can also be intermediary fees. It's all detailed in the Credit report documents.
As a lender it's the net rate after membership fees you'll receive, currently there's a 0.9% pa membership fee in place, so for a loan in MLA with 8% lender rate you actually receive 7.1% per annum all other things being equally.
NB the difference between borrower rate and lender rate, aka the monitoring fee, does vary dependent on a number of factors including loan type and risk category.
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k6
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Post by k6 on May 15, 2020 11:36:35 GMT
The lender rate is the gross rate you will receive while the borrower rate is the rate the borrower pays. So in your example the difference is 1.4% which is in effect AC's profit. The site is a new version and they are after feedback, I agree its very confusing for new users. A few people (with deep pockets) I have shown the site to have been put off by the apparent complexity but in reality its pretty simple to use the manual account when you know what you are doing. chris prob even more important to get feedback from new users like k6 as it is from established users....otherwise new users won't persevere.
bg said "So in your example the difference is 1.4% which is in effect AC's profit." - Actually that's AC's monitoring fee, so not profit, rather revenue. AC also charge the borrower entry and exit fees, there can also be intermediary fees. It's all detailed in the Credit report documents.
As a lender it's the net rate after membership fees you'll receive, currently there's a 0.9% pa membership fee in place, so for a loan in MLA with 8% lender rate you actually receive 7.1% per annum all other things being equally.
NB the difference between borrower rate and lender rate, aka the monitoring fee, does vary dependent on a number of factors including loan type and risk category.
Thanks a lot dead-money for your detailed explanation. I truly appreciate. Its nice that AC shares all this info with investors. It would be even nicer if they make their site easier to navigate. Time is money and at the moment it costs me to invest. But I do also understand that this is new UI and work in progress. Thanks again.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 15, 2020 13:38:47 GMT
bg said "So in your example the difference is 1.4% which is in effect AC's profit." - Actually that's AC's monitoring fee, so not profit, rather revenue. AC also charge the borrower entry and exit fees, there can also be intermediary fees. It's all detailed in the Credit report documents.
As a lender it's the net rate after membership fees you'll receive, currently there's a 0.9% pa membership fee in place, so for a loan in MLA with 8% lender rate you actually receive 7.1% per annum all other things being equally.
NB the difference between borrower rate and lender rate, aka the monitoring fee, does vary dependent on a number of factors including loan type and risk category.
Thanks a lot dead-money for your detailed explanation. I truly appreciate. Its nice that AC shares all this info with investors. It would be even nicer if they make their site easier to navigate. Time is money and at the moment it costs me to invest. But I do also understand that this is new UI and work in progress. Thanks again. If you have specific points, you could always post them on p2pindependentforum.com/thread/17014/beta-site
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 16, 2020 6:35:52 GMT
Profit/Loss percentages on buys and sells
Just FYI, it's the same relationship to the figure whether buying or selling: Amount times percentage/(100 - percentage)
eg £156 sold at 2.5% : 156 * 2.5/97.5 = -156*(1/39) = -£4.00
eg £378 bought at 5.5% : 378 *5.5/94.5 = 378*(11/189) = +£22.00
So remembering the "discount/(100-discount)" factor can be useful at times
You'll also notice there is a natural fraction in the background (i.e. by doubling the numbers) as we can only move in 0.5% increments.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 16, 2020 6:54:03 GMT
I just spotted a loan @ -7% (upon reloading the pre-filtered by discount page with a lower discount I had been looking at) and thought "oh good, that's just gone up, I will be able to put in for that discount if I'm quick". It took me about 2-3 minutes though to work out whether and how much to buy and put in the order. I must say the beta site is quick for posting instructions compared to the older site btw. But it was all gone when I went back to check later. One thing I did note: the next available discount had been 3% and now giving '3.5% <£0.01" is showing. Is it possible that someone had a large "buy anything >=3.5%" order all the time and so when "7%" appeared their instruction would be activated? (It has to be a computer and not real person I was pitted against!)
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on May 16, 2020 7:10:07 GMT
I just spotted a loan @ -7% (upon reloading the pre-filtered by discount page with a lower discount I had been looking at) and thought "oh good, that's just gone up, I will be able to put in for that discount if I'm quick". It took me about 2-3 minutes though to work out whether and how much to buy and put in the order. I must say the beta site is quick for posting instructions compared to the older site btw. But it was all gone when I went back to check later. One thing I did note: the next available discount had been 3% and now giving '3.5% <£0.01" is showing. Is it possible that someone had a large "buy anything >=3.5%" order all the time and so when "7%" appeared their instruction would be activated? (It has to be a computer and not real person I was pitted against!) Yes, that's a standard feature both in the old and new interfaces. You can set a buy order for any discount > X%. So if the seller made their offer available at 7% then, the next time the roundrobin machine got to look at that loan (every twenty odd minutes now, I think?) the deal would be done. There's a lot to be said for setting speculative buy orders at deep discounts on many loans just in case a seller somewhere gets desperate - especially given the AC model of allowing you to set far more bids than you have spare cash for.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on May 16, 2020 7:55:44 GMT
Thanks bg but you do not need to keep this up any longer because mine are all sold - apart from those suspended. Let's hope that offers are more Accessible for the Access account SM - and no trading fees please, AC.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 16, 2020 9:38:45 GMT
Update to earlier post about the disappearing 7%. My order was filled (to the extent I was in funds anyway) and is now gone as before. So there was a delay in updating balances, transactions etc on both sites. To the extent that I asked for amounts 'X' and 'Y' (<<< available) then by the 'equal treatment' rule I would have expected this even though the large total vanished in a single sweep. So to be aware there may be some delay on trading here. (I should be happier than I feel actually  ) |
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on May 16, 2020 12:23:54 GMT
Yep, remember there isn't a marketmaker, so orders can't be executed instantly.
It's a matched order system, which periodically works through each loan and executes matching buy and sell orders.
It used to only run once or twice daily, but following a system upgrade now runs pretty much continuously.
Similarly the procedures to update some of the account statistics run to a cycle and aren't instanteanous.
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bg
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Post by bg on May 21, 2020 7:41:28 GMT
4%+ | Loan # | Events | Last P | First L | Next P | Amount | LTV | Rate | Term | Available | Discounted | Best Rate | Best Amt | Drew | | 729 | M | 15-Apr-20 | | 29-Apr-20 | 1,850,000 | 56.1 | 8 | 1 of 24 | 200,416 | 7,637 | 6 | 3,641 | 16/May/18 | | 791 | ML | 04-Jan-20 | 16-Mar-20 | 14-May-20 | 1,894,692 | 65.4 | 8.5 | 1 of 22 | 581,316 | 52,410 | 6 | 2,733 | 31/Jul/18 | | 932 | M | 12-Apr-20 | | 12-May-20 | 430,000 | 64.7 | 5 | 45 of 60 | 242,435 | 7,117 | 6 | 6,049 | 13/Feb/19 | | 934 | ML | 12-Mar-20 | 11-Apr-20 | 11-May-20 | 750,000 | 56.8 | 5 | 46 of 60 | 539,360 | 44,470 | 5.5 | 5,617 | 12/Feb/19 | | 1021 | ML | 10-Mar-20 | 09-Apr-20 | 09-May-20 | 1,295,000 | 70 | 8 | 51 of 63 | 352,818 | 94,833 | 5.5 | 4,758 | 10/May/19 | | 464 | M | 04-Apr-20 | | 04-May-20 | 2,800,000 | 67.8 | 8.5 | 24 of 60 | 413,354 | 72,981 | 5 | 7,137 | 5/May/17 | | 766 | ML | 09-Mar-20 | 08-Apr-20 | 08-May-20 | 255,000 | 70.8 | 7 | 40 of 60 | 30,678 | 6,638 | 5 | 6,593 | 9/Jul/18 | | 788 | M | 29-Mar-20 | | 29-Apr-20 | 300,000 | 69.1 | 6 | 39 of 60 | 256,056 | 9,689 | 5 | 529 | 30/Jul/18 | | 981 | M | 31-Mar-20 | | 01-May-20 | 869,166 | 56.7 | 7 | 11 of 25 | 154,132 | 13,624 | 5 | 2,373 | 29/Mar/19 | | 974 | ML | 03-Mar-20 | 02-Apr-20 | 02-May-20 | 211,076 | 69.3 | 6 | 50 of 63 | 175,796 | 2,840 | 5 | 1,929 | 3/Apr/19 | | 994 | M | 14-Apr-20 | | 15-May-20 | 2,080,137 | 67.4 | 8.5 | 6 of 19 | 304,541 | 75,841 | 5 | 14,574 | 10/Apr/19 | | 1005 | M | 29-Mar-20 | | 28-Apr-20 | 315,000 | 70 | 7 | 49 of 60 | 250,143 | 2,992 | 5 | 539 | 29/Apr/19 | | 1084 | M | 22-Mar-20 | | 21-Apr-20 | 1,986,076 | 67.7 | 8.5 | 17 of 27 | 334,958 | 28,372 | 5 | 18,402 | 19/Jul/19 | | 800 | M | 21-Mar-20 | | 20-May-20 | 770,000 | 70 | 8 | 40 of 60 | 112,939 | 2,907 | 4.5 | 283 | 21/Aug/18 | | 828 | M | 03-Mar-20 | | 02-May-20 | 2,605,617 | 64 | 8 | 4 of 23 | 290,603 | 114,991 | 4.5 | 37,850 | 25/Sep/18 | | 450 | M | 06-Apr-20 | | 06-May-20 | 224,000 | 58.5 | 8 | 26 of 63 | 32,575 | 5,789 | 4 | 1,367 | 7/Apr/17 | | 778 | ML | 20-Jun-19 | 30-Aug-19 | 06-May-20 | 722,540 | 62.2 | 8 | 1 of 23 | 61,916 | 2,174 | 4 | 1,125 | 18/Jul/18 | | 831 | M | 06-Mar-20 | | 25-Apr-20 | 1,503,034 | 63.1 | 7.5 | 1 of 21 | 331,824 | 42,324 | 4 | 20 | 28/Sep/18 | | 888 | M | 13-Apr-20 | | 13-May-20 | 252,878 | 61 | 6 | 47 of 64 | 114,678 | 276 | 4 | 3 | 14/Dec/18 | | 930 | M | 11-Apr-20 | | 11-May-20 | 228,750 | 75 | 5.5 | 45 of 60 | 155,870 | 5,020 | 4 | 4,032 | 12/Feb/19 | | 935 | ML | 18-Mar-20 | 17-Apr-20 | 17-May-20 | 438,000 | 54.8 | 5 | 45 of 60 | 260,255 | 16,300 | 4 | 6,102 | 18/Feb/19 | | 949 | M | 03-Apr-20 | | 03-May-20 | 355,000 | 64 | 5.5 | 46 of 60 | 210,798 | 4,356 | 4 | 94 | 4/Mar/19 | | 962 | M | 27-Mar-20 | | 25-Apr-20 | 611,312 | 58 | 7 | 8 of 21 | 128,963 | 4,475 | 4 | 743 | 21/Mar/19 | | 1051 | M | 22-Mar-20 | | 21-Apr-20 | 1,034,316 | 65.7 | 7.5 | 8 of 18 | 35,007 | 5,357 | 4 | 2,376 | 21/Jun/19 | | 1109 | M | 19-Apr-20 | | 19-May-20 | 739,292 | 70 | 8.5 | 10 of 18 | 118,492 | 13,068 | 4 | 7,961 | 20/Aug/19 | | 1128 | M | 12-Apr-20 | | 12-May-20 | 2,144,929 | 70 | 8 | 13 of 21 | 314,417 | 4,219 | 4 | 469 | 10/Sep/19 | | 1201 | M | 04-Apr-20 | | 03-May-20 | 496,593 | 62.4 | 7 | 13 of 18 | 4,815 | 2,298 | 4 | 1,037 | 3/Dec/19 |
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bg
Member of DD Central
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Post by bg on May 23, 2020 10:47:55 GMT
4%+ | Loan # | Events | Last P | First L | Next P | Amount | LTV | Rate | Term | Available | Discounted | Best Rate | Best Amt | Drew | | 791 | ML | 04-Jan-20 | 16-Mar-20 | 14-May-20 | 1,894,692 | 65.4 | 8.5 | 1 of 22 | 578,767 | 50,215 | 6 | 537 | 31/Jul/18 | | 1021 | ML | 10-Mar-20 | 09-Apr-20 | 09-May-20 | 1,310,967 | 70 | 8 | 51 of 63 | 351,561 | 92,060 | 6 | 962 | 10/May/19 | | 934 | ML | 12-Mar-20 | 11-Apr-20 | 11-May-20 | 750,000 | 56.8 | 5 | 46 of 60 | 538,676 | 43,785 | 5.5 | 4,408 | 12/Feb/19 | | 464 | M | 04-Apr-20 | | 04-May-20 | 2,800,000 | 67.8 | 8.5 | 24 of 60 | 413,434 | 69,491 | 5 | 3,647 | 5/May/17 | | 788 | M | 29-Mar-20 | | 29-Apr-20 | 300,000 | 69.1 | 6 | 39 of 60 | 256,056 | 9,939 | 5 | 529 | 30/Jul/18 | | 994 | M | 14-Apr-20 | | 15-May-20 | 2,080,137 | 67.4 | 8.5 | 6 of 19 | 305,055 | 75,777 | 5 | 14,510 | 10/Apr/19 | | 1084 | M | 22-Mar-20 | | 21-Apr-20 | 2,060,368 | 67.7 | 8.5 | 17 of 27 | 330,453 | 23,758 | 5 | 13,788 | 19/Jul/19 | | 828 | M | 03-Mar-20 | | 02-May-20 | 2,605,617 | 64 | 8 | 4 of 23 | 290,616 | 114,920 | 4.5 | 37,780 | 25/Sep/18 | | 1043 | ML | 18-Mar-20 | 17-Apr-20 | 17-May-20 | 615,850 | 64.4 | 6 | 51 of 60 | 385,872 | 88 | 4.5 | 25 | 18/Jun/19 | | 450 | M | 06-Apr-20 | | 06-May-20 | 224,000 | 58.5 | 8 | 26 of 63 | 33,447 | 6,491 | 4 | 596 | 7/Apr/17 | | 800 | M | 21-Mar-20 | | 20-May-20 | 770,000 | 70 | 8 | 40 of 60 | 113,771 | 2,602 | 4 | 537 | 21/Aug/18 | | 815 | ML | 29-Feb-20 | 29-Mar-20 | 29-Apr-20 | 995,000 | 47.4 | 7.5 | 42 of 60 | 185,983 | 2,353 | 4 | 555 | 30/Aug/18 | | 932 | M | 12-Apr-20 | | 12-May-20 | 430,000 | 64.7 | 5 | 45 of 60 | 240,010 | 4,740 | 4 | 4,081 | 13/Feb/19 | | 962 | M | 27-Mar-20 | | 25-Apr-20 | 633,053 | 58 | 7 | 7 of 21 | 128,946 | 4,445 | 4 | 713 | 21/Mar/19 | | 981 | M | 31-Mar-20 | | 01-May-20 | 869,166 | 56.7 | 7 | 11 of 25 | 152,163 | 11,149 | 4 | 5,002 | 29/Mar/19 | | 1051 | M | 22-Mar-20 | | 21-Apr-20 | 1,034,316 | 65.7 | 7.5 | 8 of 18 | 35,000 | 5,324 | 4 | 2,343 | 21/Jun/19 | | 1109 | M | 19-Apr-20 | | 19-May-20 | 739,292 | 70 | 8.5 | 10 of 18 | 118,117 | 12,694 | 4 | 7,586 | 20/Aug/19 | | 1201 | M | 04-Apr-20 | | 03-May-20 | 496,593 | 62.4 | 7 | 13 of 18 | 4,699 | 2,182 | 4 | 921 | 3/Dec/19 |
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 24, 2020 18:16:21 GMT
I somehow missed out on #729. I had an open order for two weeks*. It says above it was offered @ -6% again (and it's not now of course) on 21st May but my order has not been touched. (I don't think I was ever out of funds to buy. Hmmm?)
(*I should say that I lowered the asking to -5.5% for a short while and then put it back up again (broke my 'continuity' in the pool of buyers so I lost my place perhaps?)
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 24, 2020 19:06:20 GMT
I somehow missed out on #729. I had an open order for two weeks*. It says above it was offered @ -6% again (and it's not now of course) on 21st May but my order has not been touched. (I don't think I was ever out of funds to buy. Hmmm?)
(*I should say that I lowered the asking to -5.5% for a short while and then put it back up again (broke my 'continuity' in the pool of buyers so I lost my place perhaps?)
Yep, same here, but the rate had dropped to zero for a while and it appears the system wont buy loans where the rate has dropped to zero. Similar issue with another loan that had dropped to zero but as soon as the rate was reinstated system started buying again. Neither flagged as suspended so appears to be a system default setting possibly in response the the FCA changes on loan pricing.
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Post by chris on May 24, 2020 21:16:48 GMT
I somehow missed out on #729. I had an open order for two weeks*. It says above it was offered @ -6% again (and it's not now of course) on 21st May but my order has not been touched. (I don't think I was ever out of funds to buy. Hmmm?)
(*I should say that I lowered the asking to -5.5% for a short while and then put it back up again (broke my 'continuity' in the pool of buyers so I lost my place perhaps?)
Yep, same here, but the rate had dropped to zero for a while and it appears the system wont buy loans where the rate has dropped to zero. Similar issue with another loan that had dropped to zero but as soon as the rate was reinstated system started buying again. Neither flagged as suspended so appears to be a system default setting possibly in response the the FCA changes on loan pricing. If the loan isn't paying interest, then the system won't allow trades.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 24, 2020 23:41:00 GMT
Yep, same here, but the rate had dropped to zero for a while and it appears the system wont buy loans where the rate has dropped to zero. Similar issue with another loan that had dropped to zero but as soon as the rate was reinstated system started buying again. Neither flagged as suspended so appears to be a system default setting possibly in response the the FCA changes on loan pricing. If the loan isn't paying interest, then the system won't allow trades. Yep, we had to work that out … Two points: 1. mark the loan as suspended so people know it isn't tradeable and save people wasting CS/IT time raising it as a system error. 2. Don't let the rate go to zero, no loan shouldn't be paying interest unless it is on a lender agreed payment holiday, interest will always be accruing even if the loan is in default. Its just bad loan management that for some reason somebody thought it was acceptable to leave the loan at zero for weeks while some paperwork was awaited. Even if the paperwork wasn't signed the interest would still be due, though probably at the default rate like the other loan that went to zero. It is a consistent and annoying failing of AC that they don't seem to be able to diarise a lot of loan events … expiry dates, promised updates etc so lenders have to chase and poke. Yes, I know Covid is affecting things at the moment but this has been happening since the beginning, its a lot better than it was but still occurring too often. (If you want an example #1094, next update due 30/10/19, still nothing, or you could check #1010 (which hopefully 1094 lenders have) where the Q&A promised an update 10 working days from 19/12/19, total silence until risk change this week but no real update)
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