picnicman
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Post by picnicman on Jun 19, 2019 10:51:37 GMT
The Collateral Creditors Committee meeting happened yesterday at 11.30am. Here are a few updates on subjects that I allowed to discuss: - A total of 7 property loans have now been redeemed/settled and BDO have taken enforcement action in relation to a further 7 property loans. - BDO are continuing their efforts to reconcile the discrepancies in the data recovered which affects approximately 15% (by number) of investors. - BDO are in a dialogue with the remaining borrowers and negotiations are ongoing regarding a consensual refinancing of their loans. - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. - BDO are continuing to obtain legal and property advice from Stevens and Bolton for legal matters and Avison Young for property assistance and valuations. - Based on currently available information, it would appear that tranche priority applies in respect of the relevant property loans. - It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. - BDO will pursue all lines of enquiry to maximise recoveries for investors and creditors. Monetus - Hi Monetus, as you have not listed it, I assume you are not allowed to say anything regarding my query about BDO's repayment to investors strategy? Did they give any timetable re sale of chattels, e.g estimated completion, as it seems to have taken ages so far? Thanks again for your efforts - Cheers P
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 19, 2019 11:11:51 GMT
The Collateral Creditors Committee meeting happened yesterday at 11.30am. Here are a few updates on subjects that I allowed to discuss: - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. - Based on currently available information, it would appear that tranche priority applies in respect of the relevant property loans. Sorry, but two elements I don't understand
The chattel loans, does this imply borrowers can just surrender the security and walk away?
Tranche priority?
Chattel - yes as they were pawn agreements. Collateral own them until the borrower buys them back. Tranche priority relates to the proposed repayment structure of property loans. Earlier tranches to be repaid first.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 19, 2019 11:12:11 GMT
The Collateral Creditors Committee meeting happened yesterday at 11.30am. Here are a few updates on subjects that I allowed to discuss: - A total of 7 property loans have now been redeemed/settled and BDO have taken enforcement action in relation to a further 7 property loans. - BDO are continuing their efforts to reconcile the discrepancies in the data recovered which affects approximately 15% (by number) of investors. - BDO are in a dialogue with the remaining borrowers and negotiations are ongoing regarding a consensual refinancing of their loans. - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. - BDO are continuing to obtain legal and property advice from Stevens and Bolton for legal matters and Avison Young for property assistance and valuations. - Based on currently available information, it would appear that tranche priority applies in respect of the relevant property loans. - It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. - BDO will pursue all lines of enquiry to maximise recoveries for investors and creditors. Monetus - Hi Monetus, as you have not listed it, I assume you are not allowed to say anything regarding my query about BDO's repayment to investors strategy? Did they give any timetable re sale of chattels, e.g estimated completion, as it seems to have taken ages so far? Thanks again for your efforts - Cheers P What I have posted is what I am able to discuss.
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Jun 19, 2019 11:35:38 GMT
This whole situation gets more and more disappointing with each update but thank you to Monetus and all other committee members. Regarding the chattel loans, if all borrowers have handed back the security does that mean that in effect these loans have completed and unless some mischief can be proved there is no further prospect of recovery from borrowers even though the amount may be significantly below the loan value? Regarding property, 7 loans redeemed 7 more under enforcement action, out of how many in total? Have all of the 15% been contacted by BDO or just those already contacted(largest by value)?
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jun 19, 2019 11:43:47 GMT
As someone who has a high proportion of bling 'lost' in this debacle I find the contrasting updates six months apart incredibly disappointing. Given all BDO are doing is likely instructing valuers I can't imagine what on earth could take so long, and given such an inordinate time-frame fear for the escalating impact of Administrators fees on whatever is finally realised <snip>
In respect of the chattel loans, all but one of the borrowers have returned their stock, which the Administrators now have in their possession and are currently valuing. It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. <snip> <snip> - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. <snip>
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hantsowl
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Post by hantsowl on Jun 19, 2019 12:20:55 GMT
The Collateral Creditors Committee meeting happened yesterday at 11.30am. Here are a few updates on subjects that I allowed to discuss: - A total of 7 property loans have now been redeemed/settled and BDO have taken enforcement action in relation to a further 7 property loans. - BDO are continuing their efforts to reconcile the discrepancies in the data recovered which affects approximately 15% (by number) of investors. - BDO are in a dialogue with the remaining borrowers and negotiations are ongoing regarding a consensual refinancing of their loans. - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. - BDO are continuing to obtain legal and property advice from Stevens and Bolton for legal matters and Avison Young for property assistance and valuations. - Based on currently available information, it would appear that tranche priority applies in respect of the relevant property loans. - It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. - BDO will pursue all lines of enquiry to maximise recoveries for investors and creditors. Hi Monetus. Thanks for the update. Did BDO give any indication why the data recovery is taking so long with regard to the remaining 15%? Have they employed software professionals to do this, because it would probably be cheaper than dragging this out indefinitely inflating the BDO fees?
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archie
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Post by archie on Jun 19, 2019 12:25:46 GMT
Chattel loans. In the unlikely event any pieces fetch more than the loan was worth, does the surplus have to be returned to the borrower?
A normal pawn loan would pay the surplus back to the borrower.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 19, 2019 12:31:36 GMT
In regards to the chattels whilst I can understand there is frustration and a thirst for information this is a matter strictly covered under NDA and one which it would not be beneficial for me to discuss.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 19, 2019 12:35:30 GMT
This whole situation gets more and more disappointing with each update but thank you to Monetus and all other committee members. Regarding the chattel loans, if all borrowers have handed back the security does that mean that in effect these loans have completed and unless some mischief can be proved there is no further prospect of recovery from borrowers even though the amount may be significantly below the loan value? Regarding property, 7 loans redeemed 7 more under enforcement action, out of how many in total? Have all of the 15% been contacted by BDO or just those already contacted(largest by value)? 1. There is no further prospect of any further recovery from these borrowers as they have returned the assets so the loans are over. There is no additional security. 2. I believe Stardust has posted a detailed breakdown of the property loan book and the current status of its loans on another thread on this forum somewhere. 3. Not sure to be honest but I know they reached out to a significant number of investors - at least 30 - to get enough data to work with.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 19, 2019 12:40:54 GMT
The Collateral Creditors Committee meeting happened yesterday at 11.30am. Here are a few updates on subjects that I allowed to discuss: - A total of 7 property loans have now been redeemed/settled and BDO have taken enforcement action in relation to a further 7 property loans. - BDO are continuing their efforts to reconcile the discrepancies in the data recovered which affects approximately 15% (by number) of investors. - BDO are in a dialogue with the remaining borrowers and negotiations are ongoing regarding a consensual refinancing of their loans. - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. - BDO are continuing to obtain legal and property advice from Stevens and Bolton for legal matters and Avison Young for property assistance and valuations. - Based on currently available information, it would appear that tranche priority applies in respect of the relevant property loans. - It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. - BDO will pursue all lines of enquiry to maximise recoveries for investors and creditors. Hi Monetus. Thanks for the update. Did BDO give any indication why the data recovery is taking so long with regard to the remaining 15%? Have they employed software professionals to do this, because it would probably be cheaper than dragging this out indefinitely inflating the BDO fees? Not able to comment on this matter.
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Post by dan1 on Jun 19, 2019 12:41:12 GMT
As someone who has a high proportion of bling 'lost' in this debacle I find the contrasting updates six months apart incredibly disappointing. Given all BDO are doing is likely instructing valuers I can't imagine what on earth could take so long, and given such an inordinate time-frame fear for the escalating impact of Administrators fees on whatever is finally realised <snip>
In respect of the chattel loans, all but one of the borrowers have returned their stock, which the Administrators now have in their possession and are currently valuing. It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. <snip> <snip> - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. <snip> Thanks for the update Monetus - it must be somewhat frustrating but thanks for sticking with it. On a glib note, the longer this saga rolls on the more likely it is that the bling will be reclassified as antique (and may even be appreciating in value)! I just hope that no investors have passed away in the intervening period, and for the sake of clarity, I don't wish to know the answer.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 19, 2019 13:12:33 GMT
As someone who has a high proportion of bling 'lost' in this debacle I find the contrasting updates six months apart incredibly disappointing. Given all BDO are doing is likely instructing valuers I can't imagine what on earth could take so long, and given such an inordinate time-frame fear for the escalating impact of Administrators fees on whatever is finally realised <snip>
In respect of the chattel loans, all but one of the borrowers have returned their stock, which the Administrators now have in their possession and are currently valuing. It is currently too early to determine the likely total level of recoveries from the loan books. <snip> <snip> - In respect of the chattel loans, all of the borrowers have returned their stock, which BDO are having valued and will realise in due course. <snip> Exactly and it’s what sticks out most ..quite frankly it’s incomprehensible
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sjg
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Post by sjg on Jun 19, 2019 13:42:50 GMT
Chattel loans. In the unlikely event any pieces fetch more than the loan was worth, does the surplus have to be returned to the borrower? A normal pawn loan would pay the surplus back to the borrower. I'd assume they are all still accruing interest (if not they should be) in the meanwhile so think that would account for any surplus however likely or unlikely that would be although any excess would go back to the borrower. I did have some of the car loans which will certainly be depreciating even if no mileage is added to the clock. Though don't mind being proved wrong
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jun 19, 2019 14:33:03 GMT
As expected sadly, a scandalous lack of progress. But I am sure a very substantial increase in BDO's extortionately charged hours on the case.
I mean, how long does it take to value something and stick it in the next monthly auction with a competitive reserve price. A three legged tortoise on dope could have made more progress in the past six months.
It's now 16 months since Collateral went into administration and with every passing month the prospect of any meaningful capital recovery to investors reduces.
BDO's earnings must be entering the £ millions now though.
Still, we are due the next Administrators' report from BDO by May 2020 so at least that's something to look forward to next year.
Pressure on the FCA needs to be maintained.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jun 19, 2019 16:08:57 GMT
This whole situation gets more and more disappointing with each update but thank you to Monetus and all other committee members. Regarding the chattel loans, if all borrowers have handed back the security does that mean that in effect these loans have completed and unless some mischief can be proved there is no further prospect of recovery from borrowers even though the amount may be significantly below the loan value? Regarding property, 7 loans redeemed 7 more under enforcement action, out of how many in total?Have all of the 15% been contacted by BDO or just those already contacted(largest by value)? There were six loans redeemed at the time of the Administrators Final Report - April 25th. I haven't been able to track down the possible redemption of a seventh loan, and I have only found one additional lot of loans with receivers appointed. However, these things do take a while coming up on The Gazette or CH. There is one loan asset that should be going to auction on the 4th July - BL0008/DL00033.
I have updated the Property Loan table with this information here - and for those with access the un-redacted table in DDC here.
In Edit: I thought this a likely suspect for repayment BL00057, but it seems we have some possible confirmation with some activity on title - mentioned in DDC here. It wasn't a big loan though, £122.5k so not going to be adding much to the overall recovery total.
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