Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Dec 14, 2018 10:44:29 GMT
There is no refinance offer and by the way the last time that this borrower arranged refinancing it involved a 50% haircut.
I see no reason to trust the borrower and the most sensible solution is to let Assetz take control as soon as possible.
As I understand it, option B does not imply an immediate fire sale it simply means taking the steering wheel away from Mr ****.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Dec 14, 2018 11:02:50 GMT
As AC seem to be providing timely updates on progress and a refinance deal seems imminent I intend to give them time to sort it out. I betcha any refinance deal will involve us taking a substantial haircut. The best information we have (but in my view the borrower has made it look as bad as poss) is that the security is worth less than the loan, why would another lender pay us full price. And don't forget we followed RBS who also let the borrower off a considerable portion of the debt in order to go away.
So the question is shall we accept a partial loss and allow the borrower to get away with having ******* us, or shall we put an end to his games? Which will be worse for us is impossible to say, which will be worse for him is easy to say.
What most narks me about the vote is that there is mention of a possible more accurate valuation but AC say that the borrower can't afford the 12K cost. To which I say, why would he? it's us that stand to benefit from it (to make a better informed decision), so AC themselves should have paid for it or at least asked lenders for permission so to do. And so I say *** you AC, if you won't help us then I won't help you, I refuse your steer and I say administration now
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Dec 14, 2018 11:04:34 GMT
Is anybody intending to vote option A (yet another extension)? If so, why? ... In any case I wouldn't vote B because all of my funds in this loan are in GBBA. Voting B could jeopardise my PF entitlement. Where does it say that?
In any case as AC are proposing 2 supposedly reasonable alternatives, they would be hard pressed to say you chose the wrong one so any loss is your fault.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Dec 14, 2018 11:09:02 GMT
I find it a little worrying that AC/the borrower can't say that the refinance will repay 100% of Lenders' capital and interest. How could they possibly say that when there isn't even a refinance offer letter as yet? Fat chance. The borrower has form. We are now being told the security is worth less than the loan.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 11:09:12 GMT
As AC seem to be providing timely updates on progress and a refinance deal seems imminent I intend to give them time to sort it out. What most narks me about the vote is that there is mention of a possible more accurate valuation but AC say that the borrower can't afford the 12K cost. To which I say, why would he? it's us that stand to benefit from it (to make a better informed decision), so AC themselves should have paid for it or at least asked lenders for permission so to do. Agree with you on that. We had that back in Aug 2018 with the 'informal' review by an insolvency practitioner, where it was claimed a 'proper' review would have cost £10K which the borrower didn't have.
Considering the reputational damage this is likely to do to AC, you'd think they'd be quick to fund it themselves to get accurate data. (Cynically, I wonder if they didn't because it would have shown their original valuation to be baseless).
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Post by df on Dec 14, 2018 12:33:32 GMT
... In any case I wouldn't vote B because all of my funds in this loan are in GBBA. Voting B could jeopardise my PF entitlement. Where does it say that?
In any case as AC are proposing 2 supposedly reasonable alternatives, they would be hard pressed to say you chose the wrong one so any loss is your fault.
It's in FAQs (C. protecting your Investments): "in a situation where lenders vote to accept a proposal from a borrower for debt forgiveness when there is a clear alternative that offers the prospect of full recovery of lenders' funds, the Provision Fund will not normally cover losses for those individual lenders who voted to accept that loss." - although option B is not exactly proposal from a borrower for debt forgiveness I don't want to risk voting for options that will definitely result in loss.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 13:13:16 GMT
Where does it say that?
In any case as AC are proposing 2 supposedly reasonable alternatives, they would be hard pressed to say you chose the wrong one so any loss is your fault.
It's in FAQs (C. protecting your Investments): "in a situation where lenders vote to accept a proposal from a borrower for debt forgiveness when there is a clear alternative that offers the prospect of full recovery of lenders' funds, the Provision Fund will not normally cover losses for those individual lenders who voted to accept that loss." - although option B is not exactly proposal from a borrower for debt forgiveness I don't want to risk voting for options that will definitely result in loss. I would expect AC to make it explicitly clear if any voting option ruled out use of the PF. They haven't on this one.
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Post by hammertime on Dec 14, 2018 16:28:50 GMT
Shimself i agree with everything you say. Cb25 if you are waiting for the P/F you will be waiting into infinity.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 14, 2018 17:02:04 GMT
Shimself i agree with everything you say. Cb25 if you are waiting for the P/F you will be waiting into infinity. I'm expecting nothing from the PF. I went with B
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Dec 14, 2018 19:26:53 GMT
Shimself i agree with everything you say. ... Are you looking for a husband?
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Post by madmitch on Dec 14, 2018 20:10:59 GMT
We appear to have a repeating behaviour pattern and I can't see how any refinance deal can come up with any where near the full amount. I have voted B, so has my OH. AC need to take control of the situation.
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Post by hammertime on Dec 17, 2018 10:38:43 GMT
Why do you say that Shimself?
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Post by investor01010101 on Dec 21, 2018 11:16:40 GMT
I also find it hilarious the borrower can't afford the 12K but apparently has a 1 million pound personal guarantee against this loan. I have a substantial investment in this loan and absolutely no faith in the PF, I am not sure who is the biggest con artist really this borrower or AC. I don't believe there is no refinance offer its just one big financial scam.
I voted B, sick of AC now can't wait until my account is empty.
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Post by brightspark on Dec 21, 2018 16:02:30 GMT
I would agree with your sentiments about the borrower but not entirely with those about AC. I think AC were probably misled about the previous behaviour of this borrower and this has been reflected in their subsequent action to try to sort the matter out without recourse to Administration. Lenders including myself have now run out of patience and I think the vote will go towards Administration. If AC do not then adopt this course of action they do run the risk of alienating some lender clients.
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Post by hammertime on Dec 21, 2018 16:25:18 GMT
I agree and the Mc K***** loan will be the same .A/C need to get a grip otherwise they will lose lenders.
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