rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Mar 27, 2018 12:23:57 GMT
1410173723 Some Gallic bling..seems strange that potentially, the most valuable clock amongst the lot is neither valued nor part of the loan..perhaps a sprat to catch a mackerel ? Also, why say it's 75 clocks, when only the first 74 make up the valuation. May also be a new borrower, any ideas how we can find out ?
I though this would be one like the film "gone in 60 seconds", but there's still 60% left after 14 minutes. mmmmm!! You could ask  ..ive had a sizeable nibble based only on the premise that it will last at least one term..and bale out if necessary. Post Brexit hopefully the French will get neither our sprats or mackerel.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 27, 2018 12:24:48 GMT
I don't believe valuation reports anymore. So how can I value French clocks?
I'm out. I will stick to Resedential property where I can check value.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Mar 27, 2018 12:31:00 GMT
I wont touch French clocks- they're always one hour fast  |
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Post by df on Mar 27, 2018 12:35:43 GMT
1410173723 Some Gallic bling..seems strange that potentially, the most valuable clock amongst the lot is neither valued nor part of the loan..perhaps a sprat to catch a mackerel ? Also, why say it's 75 clocks, when only the first 74 make up the valuation. May also be a new borrower, any ideas how we can find out ? I though this would be one like the film "gone in 60 seconds", but there's still 60% left after 14 minutes. mmmmm!!It is a large loan and also not everyone is keen on "collections". It will be difficult to sell in the event of default.
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Mar 27, 2018 12:39:14 GMT
I though that non-property loans via FS would be a great way to diversify. If things when wrong the asset would be easy to sell.
Looking at my overdue leader board how wrong was I!
Malaya Garnet 358 days.
Fine Art 298 days.
Painting by Chagall 292 days.
Auerbach Painting 274 days.
Pablo Picasso Etching 251 days.
Painting by Lowry 245 days.
Microsculptures 228 days.
Wouldn't be so bad but I have hardly any property ones overdue.
Also you better make sure the assets are not sold off one by one or you will end up with a overdue loan with not enough assets to cover the outstanding debt.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Mar 27, 2018 12:39:15 GMT
if we take the low estimate of £376K and deduct 20% fee that gives us £301K and that is assuming 100% sold or to put another way 90%LTV
Passez-moi ma matraque dégueulasse!
Sorry FS but I have lost confidence in most of your valuations.
Also as Sterling is strengthening against the Dollar etc these items will be more expensive to our American friends...
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Mar 27, 2018 12:40:54 GMT
I don't believe valuation reports anymore. So how can I value French clocks? I'm out. I will stick to Resedential property where I can check value. Well you cant and neither can I and if you don't believe valuation reports anymore I'm wondering what you base your judgement on. That's not to say I agree with this, or any other valuation..on loans such as this, my simple rule of thumb is always take the lowest value and lop some more off for good measure. The valuation report is by all accounts, from a valuer of some standing and no little experience so one expects she has more of an understanding of the market place than most but at the end of the day 'our' judgement or rather my judgement is still based on gut feeling
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 27, 2018 12:49:26 GMT
I don't believe valuation reports anymore. So how can I value French clocks? I'm out. I will stick to Resedential property where I can check value. Well you cant and neither can I and if you don't believe valuation reports anymore I'm wondering what you base your judgement on. That's not to say I agree with this, or any other valuation..on loans such as this, my simple rule of thumb is always take the lowest value and lop some more off for good measure. The valuation report is by all accounts, from a valuer of some standing and no little experience so one expects she has more of an understanding of the market place than most but at the end of the day 'our' judgement or rather my judgement is still based on gut feeling I bid on the resedential 60%LTV loan yesterday, where I can cross reference the valuation with actual sold prices of property in the area and actually see what the asset has sold for in the past. These clocks, in an auction, distressed sale situation, after costs , could sell for any number. I assume the worst, that the loan defaults, that the asset will be sold in auction, that a bad outcome will happen at auction. Property(not development loans) is quite a stable asset, antiques and art is a bit of a lottery. I would rather have a big stake in a good quality, low LTV loan, than have diworsification. e.g. Char*** House, 1st charge and Isle of wigh, 2 recent loans on FS.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 27, 2018 12:52:04 GMT
There are better opportunities on the SM than these clocks, IMO. You may need an ISA/non tax payer to benefit.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Mar 27, 2018 12:55:52 GMT
There are better opportunities on the SM than these clocks, IMO. You may need an ISA/non tax payer to benefit. Yes..but my ISA is full..and I have both C****** House and IOW in there
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Mar 27, 2018 12:59:04 GMT
if we take the low estimate of £376K and deduct 20% fee that gives us £301K and that is assuming 100% sold or to put another way 90%LTV Passez-moi ma matraque dégueulasse! Sorry FS but I have lost confidence in most of your valuations. Also as Sterling is strengthening against the Dollar etc these items will be more expensive to our American friends... The scrap price of bronze is riding high though. I have just been educating myself on mercurial gold gilding, probably not much value there. The value is basically 'buyer demand' and if these default there will be one less collector available. With you on this one, just doesn't chime with me.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 27, 2018 15:34:21 GMT
Well you cant and neither can I and if you don't believe valuation reports anymore I'm wondering what you base your judgement on. That's not to say I agree with this, or any other valuation..on loans such as this, my simple rule of thumb is always take the lowest value and lop some more off for good measure. The valuation report is by all accounts, from a valuer of some standing and no little experience so one expects she has more of an understanding of the market place than most but at the end of the day 'our' judgement or rather my judgement is still based on gut feeling These clocks, in an auction, distressed sale situation, after costs , could sell for any number. I assume the worst, that the loan defaults, that the asset will be sold in auction, that a bad outcome will happen at auction. Property(not development loans) is quite a stable asset, antiques and art is a bit of a lottery. The problem I have with this collection is its size. The values estimated for the individual items might be perfectly reasonable if the clocks were being sold individually, but that won't be the situation if this loan defaults. If FS needed to sell a clock or two, the prices achieved might not be too different from the VR values. If they need to sell 70+ clocks, they'll flood the market and the prices achieved will be significantly below those in the VR. But that's JMHO. My feeling is that this is a large contributor to the significant recovery problems FS are having with the railway memorabilia.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 27, 2018 16:58:07 GMT
Let's assume the bottom end, as like mikes1951 said, the market will be flooded.
That's 356k, minus 15% auction house fee, storage costs, transport costs, service and maintenance costs, possible receiver fees, insurance etc etc then the LTV doesn't look so great. They will also take years to sell, tying up capital. And if they achieve less than 300k in a saturated market...
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Mar 27, 2018 20:07:03 GMT
Renewing tomorrow.
Maybe this is the same borrower as the French clocks.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Mar 27, 2018 20:10:56 GMT
Renewal from (6334081637) to 1013434811
11am 28/03/2018
£455K @ 12% ..LTV 70%
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..ive had a sizeable nibble based only on the premise that it will last at least one term..and bale out if necessary. Post Brexit hopefully the French will get neither our sprats or mackerel.
