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Post by ablrate on Oct 18, 2018 10:23:29 GMT
Thanks ablrate , your further information & clarification is appreciated. Re " it is a very swift way of paying people". What perplexes me is how is it practical to use/pay in a "currency" which is constantly fluctuating in value, often by huge swings? Making payments in crypto just doesn't seem viable currently? I understand it's other uses, it's the "currency" angle that escapes me. In this context.. i.e ASMX, there would be no exposure to crypto prices.. settlement is a 'momentary exchange of value'.. i.e converted from gbp to crypto to the foreign currency.. pretty much instantly, without any interaction from lenders with any crypto (i,e its an internal settlement thing) As far as using a crypto everyday... that is the current issue, the fluctuation in price is putting the average person from using it (and the geeky clunky way its bought, sold and stored)... but ultimately my belief is that it will become ubiquitous... which cypto that is, is another story. I don't believe, under current circumstances that is can be 'thethered' i.e 'stablecoin' to existing currencies... but there are some incredibly clever people in the space... and who am I to make predictions on that! Basically when I pay the price is often 1 ETH or 0.25 BTC etc... the stability factor only comes in if the charge is in $ or £ for example... Just like £1 is £1 1 ETH is 1 ETH
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 18, 2018 10:31:09 GMT
Don't know if anyone else has tried to register but be warned it is a nightmare re uploading the documents required. They all have to be more than 2500 pixels wide and at least 8 mb. And you have to take a selfie of you holding your uploaded document, not easy to do. Phone in one hand document in the other. thats me out then
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Post by ablrate on Oct 18, 2018 10:56:51 GMT
I really don't like this. I'm struggling to see what it brings to lenders. Perhaps (and it's a big perhaps) it will bring more lenders/cash to the platform....but the issue for me is lack of origination and lack of diversity of borrowers. I really think ABL should be focusing on that. This ICO angle - I really don't like. I think it's all a big swindle. People who don't really know what they are doing are buying these tokens thinking they're getting a piece of the tech/platform but in reality they're worthless (I'm happy to be corrected here). Look at the mad scramble for Ripple (XRP) which led to a big collapse..does it actually have any value? ASM are going to sell tokens for cash. They describe the tokens as "intended to support the development and functioning of the ASMX ecosystem." , a "borrower bounty for lenders" , "status fees" , "gas for settlement". Some fancy words but all meaningless drivel in my view...all it will potentially do is offer a big windfall for the owners. I won't be taking up my 7.5%. You are entitled to you opinion, and we are not asking you to purchase ASM Tokens. I think your point is valid on ICOs, there have been many problems in the crypto space. But like P2P evolved into a regulated space, the crypto regulations are coming, and in the case of Gibraltar is already here. There are bubbles driven by some who, perhaps, should not be in the space and don't understand the fundementals. I am not here to defend crypto, but because a bubble occured in crypto doesn't mean that there is no value in some crypto. Just like because there have been many equity bubbles and crashes that equities have no value. believe me, it took some time to understand this space... is it perfect?.. far, far from it. There are many crappy equities/bonds/swaps/securities trading on frothy unsubstantiated multiples and there are some crappy tokens/coins doing the same. I genuinely value your opinion and those others who have provided feedback... , but to dismiss a technology as 'meaningless drivel' without an understanding of the technology (I am making an assumption here, so please feel free to correct me) is short sighted As I have said previously, ASMX is not targetting our lenders in the token sale... but it would have been off for us not not explain what we are doing in the space, so we did that and looked to gain something for those lenders who wanted it.
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Post by barneywol on Oct 18, 2018 11:07:03 GMT
Don't know if anyone else has tried to register but be warned it is a nightmare re uploading the documents required. They all have to be more than 2500 pixels wide and at least 8 mb. And you have to take a selfie of you holding your uploaded document, not easy to do. Phone in one hand document in the other. thats me out then I was also totally appalled that they demanded a scan of my passport that is at least 2400 pixels wide and high. Not only is it something of a faff to produce that, I am REALLY concerned about the security implications of that. Why on Earth do they need a high resolution scan of my picture if it isn't for nefarious purposes? I don't know who this (foreign, multinational?) company is - they could easily be using my image to produce fake passports for foreigners. There could soon be lots of "me" in the UK - only one of whom speaks English! I'm perfectly happy to provide my bank details, address, birthday, National Insurance number, and - if you like - my passport NUMBER (something which would be impossible for 90% of Americans, I gather!), but I'm sure the UK Border Force would be appalled at us giving away all our details AND a high resolution picture! They mention "KYC" regulations? No idea what that is, nor should I need to waste my time Googling all this stuff.
I might also add that as oldtimer said, the current registration screens are a nightmare - the backspace key isn't recognised; you have to scroll all the way down a huge list of countries to find "UK" (why wasn't it the default, and/or at the top?); AND they want your "Zip/Post code" - but that field won't accept letters! I've mentioned this to the Ablrate helpdesk, and they say that they will feed that back to the website developers, but come on - how come it is so bad in the first place?
I also don't understand all this talk about "Blockchain"? From their email it sounded like they would have accounts on other P2P platforms, and we would just provide the capital for them to invest in these other platforms. Well Ratesetter tried allowing "institutional investors", and the huge amounts these companies invested badly distorted the market, so Ratesetter have now banned that practice. If I have understood the idea correctly, then how long before the other P2P firms are ruined by big money amounts coming from Ablrate? But if I have totally the wrong end of the stick, then Ablrate, as many people higher up this thread have already said - your explanation of the concept is woefully inadequate. PLEASE - tell us in short, simple English words, with examples, how it is intended to work.
But in the meantime, life is too short, and all this frustration is bad for my blood pressure - I'm out!
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oldtimer
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Post by oldtimer on Oct 18, 2018 11:12:25 GMT
I might also add that as oldtimer said, the current registration screens are a nightmare - the backspace key isn't recognised; you have to scroll all the way down a huge list of countries to find "UK" (why wasn't it the default, and/or at the top?); AND they want your "Zip/Post code" - but that field won't accept letters! I've mentioned this to the Ablrate helpdesk, and they say that they will feed that back to the website developers, but come on - how come it is so bad in the first place?
I did get it to accept the letters in the postcode using Chrome but it did not work in Firefox
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 18, 2018 11:39:45 GMT
....ASMX is basically a bit of tech, so when you click on the secondary market it will be 'ablrate (or whoever) secondary market', powered by ASMX. You wont notice the difference in primary loans, and if you have no interest in any other platform, you also won't notice a difference.... Will Ablrate customers be able to access the Ablrate SM on ASMX without registering on ASMX as this seems to be a bit of a nightmare.
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archie
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Post by archie on Oct 18, 2018 11:46:29 GMT
Don't know if anyone else has tried to register but be warned it is a nightmare re uploading the documents required. They all have to be more than 2500 pixels wide and at least 8 mb. And you have to take a selfie of you holding your uploaded document, not easy to do. Phone in one hand document in the other. Discrimination against vampires.
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Post by ablrate on Oct 18, 2018 11:54:10 GMT
....ASMX is basically a bit of tech, so when you click on the secondary market it will be 'ablrate (or whoever) secondary market', powered by ASMX. You wont notice the difference in primary loans, and if you have no interest in any other platform, you also won't notice a difference.... Will Ablrate customers be able to access the Ablrate SM on ASMX without registering on ASMX as this seems to be a bit of a nightmare. Yes - the site causing issues is the token sale platform.. not ASMX... ASMX will not launch until Feb/March and there will be no need for any extra logins.. you will barley notice it is there
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Post by Ace on Oct 18, 2018 11:55:26 GMT
ablrate , I appreciate your engagement on here today, but so far you haven't answered what seems to be a simple question; What can the tokens that we are being offered actually be used for / spent on? Please give some simple concrete examples as I can't work out how to value the carrot that is being dangled. For example, if one has £10,000 invested on ABLrate and received £750 worth of tokens could this be used to purchase £750 worth of loans on ABLrate? Or can they be used to buy crypto currencies? Or can they be used to pay some kind of trading fees? Etc, etc.
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Post by ablrate on Oct 18, 2018 12:22:10 GMT
thats me out then I was also totally appalled that they demanded a scan of my passport that is at least 2400 pixels wide and high. Not only is it something of a faff to produce that, I am REALLY concerned about the security implications of that. Why on Earth do they need a high resolution scan of my picture if it isn't for nefarious purposes? I don't know who this (foreign, multinational?) company is - they could easily be using my image to produce fake passports for foreigners. There could soon be lots of "me" in the UK - only one of whom speaks English! I'm perfectly happy to provide my bank details, address, birthday, National Insurance number, and - if you like - my passport NUMBER (something which would be impossible for 90% of Americans, I gather!), but I'm sure the UK Border Force would be appalled at us giving away all our details AND a high resolution picture! They mention "KYC" regulations? No idea what that is, nor should I need to waste my time Googling all this stuff.
I might also add that as oldtimer said, the current registration screens are a nightmare - the backspace key isn't recognised; you have to scroll all the way down a huge list of countries to find "UK" (why wasn't it the default, and/or at the top?); AND they want your "Zip/Post code" - but that field won't accept letters! I've mentioned this to the Ablrate helpdesk, and they say that they will feed that back to the website developers, but come on - how come it is so bad in the first place?
I also don't understand all this talk about "Blockchain"? From their email it sounded like they would have accounts on other P2P platforms, and we would just provide the capital for them to invest in these other platforms. Well Ratesetter tried allowing "institutional investors", and the huge amounts these companies invested badly distorted the market, so Ratesetter have now banned that practice. If I have understood the idea correctly, then how long before the other P2P firms are ruined by big money amounts coming from Ablrate? But if I have totally the wrong end of the stick, then Ablrate, as many people higher up this thread have already said - your explanation of the concept is woefully inadequate. PLEASE - tell us in short, simple English words, with examples, how it is intended to work.
But in the meantime, life is too short, and all this frustration is bad for my blood pressure - I'm out!
I was also totally appalled that they demanded a scan of my passport that is at least 2400 pixels wide and high. Not only is it something of a faff to produce that, I am REALLY concerned about the security implications of that. Why on Earth do they need a high resolution scan of my picture if it isn't for nefarious purposes? - Any financial platform .. and this is a token sale platform... requires identification of its users. Its the law. - I agree the image thing is a faff - we have passed this on (as we said in our email to you) and get them to make it not so precise, however, it needs to be of a big enough size to see that it is genuine. I don't know who this (foreign, multinational?) company is - they could easily be using my image to produce fake passports for foreigners. -You might recognise the CEO if you are an Ablrate lender and the documents are quite clear about the company. There could soon be lots of "me" in the UK - only one of whom speaks English! I'm perfectly happy to provide my bank details, address, birthday, National Insurance number, and - if you like - my passport NUMBER (something which would be impossible for 90% of Americans, I gather!), but I'm sure the UK Border Force would be appalled at us giving away all our details AND a high resolution picture! - Please, lets try to keep the conversation realistic They mention "KYC" regulations? No idea what that is, nor should I need to waste my time Googling all this stuff. - 'Know Your Client' - its the law. I might also add that as oldtimer said, the current registration screens are a nightmare - the backspace key isn't recognised; you have to scroll all the way down a huge list of countries to find "UK" (why wasn't it the default, and/or at the top?); AND they want your "Zip/Post code" - but that field won't accept letters! I've mentioned this to the Ablrate helpdesk, and they say that they will feed that back to the website developers, but come on - how come it is so bad in the first place? - Postcode fixed.. countries in alphabetic order I also don't understand all this talk about "Blockchain"? - You don't need to From their email it sounded like they would have accounts on other P2P platforms, and we would just provide the capital for them to invest in these other platforms. -Nope - nothing like that at all Well Ratesetter tried allowing "institutional investors", and the huge amounts these companies invested badly distorted the market, so Ratesetter have now banned that practice. - virtually ever single platform (of note) has institutional investors.. its the way of the world..managed well, it is a symbiotic relationship and good for retail lenders... and I very much doubt Ratsetter has 'banned' institutions.. although please feel free to correct me. If I have understood the idea correctly, then how long before the other P2P firms are ruined by big money amounts coming from Ablrate? - As above.. and no. that is not the right end of the stick But if I have totally the wrong end of the stick, then Ablrate, as many people higher up this thread have already said - your explanation of the concept is woefully inadequate. PLEASE - tell us in short, simple English words, with examples, how it is intended to work. - You deposit money on ablrate, you lend money on ablrate, you decide you would like to sell that loan and put it up for sale on the secondary market.. this market is run on a new technology developed by a company called ASMX. If you would like to do the same on other platforms in the UK and throughout the world, then you will be able to do that from Ablrate, without having to sign up to any other platform. You still select the loans, you are still in control, you don't need crypto, you don't need tokens, you wont need to re-sign up... and if you don;t want to do any of that.... just like now, you don't have to. But in the meantime, life is too short, and all this frustration is bad for my blood pressure - I'm out! - No worries Again.. we explained what we are up to out of courtesy to lenders, we do not expect you to immerse yourself in blockchain technology.. if you don't want anything to change for you...and keep it simple... that is exactly what you can do...
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Post by ablrate on Oct 18, 2018 12:46:09 GMT
ablrate , I appreciate your engagement on here today, but so far you haven't answered what seems to be a simple question; What can the tokens that we are being offered actually be used for / spent on? Please give some simple concrete examples as I can't work out how to value the carrot that is being dangled. For example, if one has £10,000 invested on ABLrate and received £750 worth of tokens could this be used to purchase £750 worth of loans on ABLrate? Or can they be used to buy crypto currencies? Or can they be used to pay some kind of trading fees? Etc, etc. - The tokens are really for partner platforms. Those who want to join the network and settle trades on the network, list loans on the network etc, will pay in ASM. For lenders : -there will be new tools offered by ASMX. So if you want to get super fancy and have enhanced api access for analysis, they will charge a fee is ASM. They are building tools where you can create your own trading strategies, automated... they will charge for that (not just auto trader, but full on strategies on one platform or across platforms). Basically trading is free to you, as it is now, but those who want more sophisticated tools and enhanced connectivity will be able to get it with tokens. The tokens will be listed on GBX - DAX, so may be able to be sold for value there if a market for the tokens occurs and there are buyers on GBX -DAX. The platforms who join and those others who hope to list loans for lenders viewing will have to go to GBX, or other exchanges where ASMX choose to list the token, to buy tokens to pay for transaction costs and other fees on the system. There is a fixed supply of tokens and no more will be created. ASMX are looking at the use of their tokens for buying loans.. but that would require a leap in the regulatory situation and at a minimum an emoney license etc. ASMX are looking at the regulations for that. Again, however, these are not aimed at our lenders... the email was a courtesy to existing lenders
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 18, 2018 12:47:26 GMT
Will Ablrate customers be able to access the Ablrate SM on ASMX without registering on ASMX as this seems to be a bit of a nightmare. Yes - the site causing issues is the token sale platform.. not ASMX... ASMX will not launch until Feb/March and there will be no need for any extra logins.. you will barley notice it is there Oh No! Even more complexity and jargon. I have no idea how to do a barley notice, nor any other type of grain-based procedure. I'm out!
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 18, 2018 12:50:07 GMT
Will Ablrate customers be able to access the Ablrate SM on ASMX without registering on ASMX as this seems to be a bit of a nightmare. Yes - the site causing issues is the token sale platform.. not ASMX... ASMX will not launch until Feb/March and there will be no need for any extra logins.. you will barley notice it is there Hi thanks for all the replies and the time But This idea of buying loans from other companies but from within the Abl platform without logging on to another site if using Huddle as an example. 1. do i need a Huddle account i.e basic KYC 2.if i understand it correct i will see their loans on the SM and can buy still with only your KYC 3.But does that apply to new loans i.e when you launch a loan at 2pm anybody logged on with another company anywhere in the world can see it and buy it so really would be FFF 4.if all of the above is right does that make you more like a S&S platform with you doing one KYC but can buy from multiple providers as the likes HL or Fidelity do for funds If that is right taking the tokens & block chain confusion away for a minute it sounds interesting but i'm guessing i'v got it wrong somewhere!
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Oct 18, 2018 13:02:53 GMT
Wow - this has moved on a bit.
The positives from this thread include a brilliant insight into the various participants' ranges of knowledge, their skills and capabilities - that's a key strength which provides untold value to me (and others I suspect). Another positive is the active and dynamic engagement of ablrate - something comparatively rare these days.
Another product of the thread has been a fair number of informative posts and one absolutely crucial point which barneywol nailed: "... tell us in short, simple English words, with examples, how it is intended to work. ...".
ablrate thankfully responded to that in what I think is a pretty elegant response to barneywol. I now have some clue about what is proposed.
Just think how the debate would have changed if the ablrate initial email had contained those words... along with others, no doubt!
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Oct 18, 2018 13:10:02 GMT
Yes - the site causing issues is the token sale platform.. not ASMX... ASMX will not launch until Feb/March and there will be no need for any extra logins.. you will barley notice it is there Oh No! Even more complexity and jargon. I have no idea how to do a barley notice, nor any other type of grain-based procedure. I'm out! I ryecorn he didn't spelt that right.
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