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Post by martin44 on Apr 3, 2019 23:03:37 GMT
So we learnt something today. When the game is tied it does not go to a penalty shootout, instead the ref gets to score for whichever side he chooses . Good try, but it is standard parliamentary procedure for the speaker to vote no when there are no further voting options on a motion, it is not the speakers position to create a situation of majority via his decisions, if the house cannot reach a majority, then the speaker will not create one unless there is a future opportunity of the majority being rejected due to another vote. Edit. Being particularly pedantic... it's when the game is a draw. ... we are getting there... ... No offence.. just a little off hand fun..
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Post by martin44 on Apr 3, 2019 23:22:13 GMT
Guardian ( here) reporting "Theresa May’s appeal for a short Brexit extension has been rejected by Jean-Claude Juncker, who said that unless the withdrawal deal was passed within nine days the UK would crash out of the EU or have to sign up to a long delay."
mrclondon I think MPs - being Remainers at heart - would go for Revoke, Corbyn's deal, May's deal, No deal (in that order). Bye bye Brexit, bye bye Tories. Here's my version. 1. Revoke Brexit =already voted down in the indicative votes. 2. Corbyns deal = What deal? he wants a custom union which is clearly unacceptable. 3. Mays deal = lost 3 times. 4. No deal = todays proceedings (almost) put a stop to that. so... General election? Peoples 2nd vote? Both extremely decisive..
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 3, 2019 23:54:53 GMT
If its run as preference votes then the lowest count gets eliminated and its 2nd preference votes allocated ... until either a majority is reached or (due to abstentions on lower preferences ) its down to just two options, the largest of which wins.
So revoke and no-deal get eliminated, hence it comes down to the more popular of May's deal and labour's cu+sm. But unless there is a true stable majority for either option, the subsequent bill will struggle to get through parliament, and we are back to square one.
The EU will only grant an extension for a purpose .... ratify WA + political decl (the later poss modified next week), in-out referendum, or GE.
GE isn't likely to change the remain vs leave mp numbers significantly, and civil service will still be remain leaning; unlikley to be a clear stable majority behind a ratifiable deal by next Wednesday, which leves referendum.
My assumption that the net effect of today's craziness (if passed in the Lords) is the EU offer a date and stipulate the condition (referendum) next Wed, then the commons vote next Thursday whether to accept it.
It really makes zero sense for the EU to offer an extension as we will continue to dominate the EU agenda for years to come.
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 4, 2019 0:14:34 GMT
One of the tory brexiteers quoted the start of Luke 23:34 during one of today's debates:
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments. (English Standard Version)
which resonates strongly with me at the end of today. I simply don't believe any of them know the wider implications (beyond brexit) of what they are doing.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 0:24:42 GMT
One of the tory brexiteers quoted the start of Luke 23:34 during one of today's debates:
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments. (English Standard Version)
which resonates strongly with me at the end of today. I simply don't believe any of them know the wider implications (beyond brexit) of what they are doing.
I must say i totally agree .
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Apr 4, 2019 1:07:04 GMT
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james100
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Post by james100 on Apr 4, 2019 7:10:32 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 4, 2019 7:57:43 GMT
When the game is tied it does not go to a penalty shootout, instead the ref gets to score for whichever side he chooses . Not exactly.
It gets decided by a convention that was established by John Evelyn Denison over a hundred and fifty years ago. I recall Labour speaker Betty Bothroyd supporting John Major in 1993 when there was a tie(ish)
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 4, 2019 8:09:11 GMT
Yeah, I misunderstood that, as martin44 pointed out up thread. Still, an unusual occurrence.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Apr 4, 2019 8:16:38 GMT
One of the tory brexiteers quoted the start of Luke 23:34 during one of today's debates:
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments. (English Standard Version)
which resonates strongly with me at the end of today. I simply don't believe any of them know the wider implications (beyond brexit) of what they are doing.
I agree also, but my dismay is overwhelmed by the absolute hilarity of Mark Francois quoting the bible!
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Post by dan1 on Apr 4, 2019 9:15:10 GMT
<snip> Both extremely decisive.. decisive, or did you mean divisive?
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 4, 2019 14:34:36 GMT
<snip> Both extremely decisive.. decisive, or did you mean divisive? But all elections and referendums are divisive by their very nature. Only the ones held in dictatorships where the rulers get 98.9% are almost completely non-divisive, if that was the real result.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 20:13:13 GMT
<snip> Both extremely decisive.. decisive, or did you mean divisive? Thanks for that, yes divisive.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 20:30:34 GMT
You missed JC .. i could post many, but i'll resist the temptation.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 4, 2019 21:46:03 GMT
Leaving aside the main debate for a moment, what will happen to the coalition government if a Tory-Labour deal goes ahead? In normal circumstances I'd expect the DUP to withdraw their support, and the government would fail to get any of their business through the house eventually leading to a vote of no confidence followed by a GE (assuming no alternative government can be formed). Now, assuming the vote of no confidence is off the table, is the implicit assumption that Labour will have to vote with the government on specific bills in order for the government to, well, govern?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these Tory-Labour discussions must be about more than just internal party politics.
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