Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Nov 23, 2018 22:30:13 GMT
And when they turn the lights off where will you start exactly? What regulator will oversee the winding down? How do you propose obtaining loan agreements and terms of which you're a creditor? And what of us who have no funds with which to instruct a solicitor? By cashing in business assets I'm referring to Director's loans against business assets. For many of us here we had no prior experience with investing, and none since. As I've said elsewhere we were essentially told via the site branding that there was a risk to using saving stream, but that our money was secured against 75% of the property value, and there was a fund we could access where there's a shortfall. The whole site should never have been made available to the general public. Their banner adverts were in a crypto currency forum of all places. With the FCA sanctioned agreed third party winddown company ... a major insolvency practioner. FCA. I don't need to as it will be managed by the former mentioned party as required by FCA regulation. (But they may be supplied if required - I've got the London one) -70% mazx actually but heavily caveated and not a distressed sale. If they were on crypto then that is far more risky than P2P, so noone could claim naivity, at risk of huge fluctuations and criminal prosecution in some cases. A more valid point would be they were on FB which they were. Yep, there was a discretionary fund so no guarentee. Valuations cue ozboy . Have been directors loans since day one just unsecured, SS had charges in favour of a borrower against it. Also as per the site when we signed up: "Where is the risk? All our loans are secured against a borrower's property that we secure with a legal charge. If the borrower fails to repay the loan, we sell the property to repay our savers plus their interest. We only ever lend a maximum of 70% of the value of the property (LTV) ensuring we have plenty of equity in the property. All property that is used as security is valued by professionally qualified chartered surveyors and indemnified against rogue valuations." Note "savers" and pretty much everything else in that paragraph.
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Nov 23, 2018 22:30:57 GMT
And when they turn the lights off where will you start exactly? What regulator will oversee the winding down? How do you propose obtaining loan agreements and terms of which you're a creditor? And what of us who have no funds with which to instruct a solicitor? By cashing in business assets I'm referring to Director's loans against business assets. For many of us here we had no prior experience with investing, and none since. As I've said elsewhere we were essentially told via the site branding that there was a risk to using saving stream, but that our money was secured against 75% of the property value, and there was a fund we could access where there's a shortfall. The whole site should never have been made available to the general public. Their banner adverts were in a crypto currency forum of all places. Unfortunately, in UK law, ignorance is no excuse, otherwise everyone would be citing they were unaware and hoping to get away with judgments in their favour. All investors start out with a solitary investment, some go on to add to their portfolio, some don't. It's life. That is why diversification is so important, aka, not putting all eggs in one basket. P2P is relatively a new investment in the electronic format, and the manual investing P2P sites like Lendy are probably best left to the professional investors who have learned to manage risk. Whilst I have no idea about the FCA views on Lendy, I would hazard a guess that it will only strengthen their [FCA] intention to limit P2P to non-retail investors in the future. When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2018 22:31:36 GMT
It was never an instant access savings account and never promoted itself as such. Anyone who invested as such clearly didn't read or understand the risk warnings. This is why MrC has made the points he has and the FCA is currently advocating restrictions in their consultation. Risk warnings? Maybe you should journey back and have a good old look at the risk warnings: web.archive.org/web/20150315000758/https://www.savingstream.co.uk/Risk warnings were just an opportunity to promote the platform and explain how they had us covered. Most secondary market sales in 24 hours but not guaranteed, securities they enforce as soon as the loan defaults, indemnified valuations, 6 month terms, option to receive interest upfront. It bares no resemblance to the situation we all now find ourselves in, absolutely misleading wouldn't you agree? No, pretty explicit, you might lose all or some of your money. We've tried to mitigate it but you might lose all or some of your money. 6, actually 7, months terms went out with the boats, you could argue you were mislead prior to the platform change but unless you are solely in loans before dfl005 not a leg to stand on IIRC. I'm afraid your blinded by assumptions that what was will always be, smart money made no such assumptions, the rest, including me, deal with the reality. PS 3 potential compliants pending and plenty of kicking Lendy in public & private.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2018 22:34:38 GMT
With the FCA sanctioned agreed third party winddown company ... a major insolvency practioner. FCA. I don't need to as it will be managed by the former mentioned party as required by FCA regulation. (But they may be supplied if required - I've got the London one) -70% mazx actually but heavily caveated and not a distressed sale. If they were on crypto then that is far more risky than P2P, so noone could claim naivity, at risk of huge fluctuations and criminal prosecution in some cases. A more valid point would be they were on FB which they were. Yep, there was a discretionary fund so no guarentee. Valuations cue ozboy . Have been directors loans since day one just unsecured, SS had charges in favour of a borrower against it. Also as per the site when we signed up: "Where is the risk? All our loans are secured against a borrower's property that we secure with a legal charge. If the borrower fails to repay the loan, we sell the property to repay our savers plus their interest. We only ever lend a maximum of 70% of the value of the property (LTV) ensuring we have plenty of equity in the property. All property that is used as security is valued by professionally qualified chartered surveyors and indemnified against rogue valuations." Note "savers" and pretty much everything else in that paragraph. And note that there is absolutely nothing definitive. A statement of facts & no promises. Edit 2015, are there any loans from 2015 left.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2018 22:38:06 GMT
Unfortunately, in UK law, ignorance is no excuse, otherwise everyone would be citing they were unaware and hoping to get away with judgments in their favour. All investors start out with a solitary investment, some go on to add to their portfolio, some don't. It's life. That is why diversification is so important, aka, not putting all eggs in one basket. P2P is relatively a new investment in the electronic format, and the manual investing P2P sites like Lendy are probably best left to the professional investors who have learned to manage risk. Whilst I have no idea about the FCA views on Lendy, I would hazard a guess that it will only strengthen their [FCA] intention to limit P2P to non-retail investors in the future. When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors. Yep, and the FCA made them change it IIRC 18months ago, that's why it's Lendy not SS
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Mucho P2P
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Post by Mucho P2P on Nov 23, 2018 22:45:43 GMT
Unfortunately, in UK law, ignorance is no excuse, otherwise everyone would be citing they were unaware and hoping to get away with judgments in their favour. All investors start out with a solitary investment, some go on to add to their portfolio, some don't. It's life. That is why diversification is so important, aka, not putting all eggs in one basket. P2P is relatively a new investment in the electronic format, and the manual investing P2P sites like Lendy are probably best left to the professional investors who have learned to manage risk. Whilst I have no idea about the FCA views on Lendy, I would hazard a guess that it will only strengthen their [FCA] intention to limit P2P to non-retail investors in the future. When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors. When it was marketed to us, we could have been called anything, as Lendy was an unregulated P2P platform at first. I probably dislike Lendy as much as you, having enough capital effectively "trapped" for lack of its liquidity. However, having been around for a few decades in the financial arena, and also specialising in business troubleshooting, I will categorically state that leaving Lendy to sort out this problem will take ages, but having an administrator brought in will also take ages, and guaranteed to leave us with less capital at the end of the road. We are in grit and bear it times with Lendy at the moment. They have closed one loan this week, and a couple others are due [hopefully] any day/week soon to be closed.
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Nov 23, 2018 22:48:12 GMT
When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors. Yep, and the FCA made them change it IIRC 18months ago, that's why it's Lendy not SS IIRC it was due to the Payday lender "Lending Stream" objecting, in operation since 2008.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2018 22:52:03 GMT
When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors. When it was marketed to us, we could have been called anything, as Lendy was an unregulated P2P platform at first. I probably dislike Lendy as much as you, having enough capital effectively "trapped" for lack of its liquidity. However, having been around for a few decades in the financial arena, and also specialising in business troubleshooting, I will categorically state that leaving Lendy to sort out this problem will take ages, but having an administrator brought in will also take ages, and guaranteed to leave us with less capital at the end of the road. We are in grit and bear it times with Lendy at the moment. They have closed one loan this week, and a couple others are due [hopefully] any day/week soon to be closed. Lendy were never unregulated. They have always had P2P permission under the old OFT regime, interim under FCA. Agree with rest.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2018 22:56:36 GMT
Yep, and the FCA made them change it IIRC 18months ago, that's why it's Lendy not SS IIRC it was due to the Payday lender "Lending Stream" objecting, in operation since 2008. Possibly but that was not the reason announced its unlikely
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Mr_N
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Post by Mr_N on Nov 23, 2018 23:16:53 GMT
When it was marketed to us we were called "savers", not investors. When it was marketed to us, we could have been called anything, as Lendy was an unregulated P2P platform at first. I probably dislike Lendy as much as you, having enough capital effectively "trapped" for lack of its liquidity. However, having been around for a few decades in the financial arena, and also specialising in business troubleshooting, I will categorically state that leaving Lendy to sort out this problem will take ages, but having an administrator brought in will also take ages, and guaranteed to leave us with less capital at the end of the road. We are in grit and bear it times with Lendy at the moment. They have closed one loan this week, and a couple others are due [hopefully] any day/week soon to be closed. I would rather exclude Lendy completely from recovering my capital and interest, and bring in professional debt recovery specialists to maximise our returns. I don't trust Lendy's ability to seek and employ it's own staff based on their own insufficient knowledge. If one paragraph of waffle per month on tens of thousands, or multi million pound recovery projects is the best Lendy can muster, we're not employing the right agent. Where is our ability to terminate Lendy as agent?
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 24, 2018 0:35:34 GMT
When it was marketed to us, we could have been called anything, as Lendy was an unregulated P2P platform at first. I probably dislike Lendy as much as you, having enough capital effectively "trapped" for lack of its liquidity. However, having been around for a few decades in the financial arena, and also specialising in business troubleshooting, I will categorically state that leaving Lendy to sort out this problem will take ages, but having an administrator brought in will also take ages, and guaranteed to leave us with less capital at the end of the road. We are in grit and bear it times with Lendy at the moment. They have closed one loan this week, and a couple others are due [hopefully] any day/week soon to be closed. I would rather exclude Lendy completely from recovering my capital and interest, and bring in professional debt recovery specialists to maximise our returns. I don't trust Lendy's ability to seek and employ it's own staff based on their own insufficient knowledge. If one paragraph of waffle per month on tens of thousands, or multi million pound recovery projects is the best Lendy can muster, we're not employing the right agent. Where is our ability to terminate Lendy as agent? There isn't one, though technically you could pursue the borrower yourself as a party to the contract. However, as I & others have said, in most cases it is professional debt recovery agents pursuing the recoveries. (they don't provide a huge amount of info themselves, every 6 months a report which is largely comprised of lists of creditors & expenses). Comms are poor but that doesn't necessarily reflect the competence of the recoveries team.
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Post by charliebrown on Nov 24, 2018 3:16:18 GMT
I’m not suggesting Lendy should be forced into administration, but perhaps the FCA or Ombudsman could be sent in to provide guidance and assistance. I share the original poster’s frustration. From the outside looking in, Lendy’s so called world-class recoveries team are just not performing (at least not on my defaults). It can be argued that they’re working within a 3rd world legal system and that’s clearly true, but.... there are examples of incompetence everywhere you look. Examples from the top of my head are Hastings (where borrower excuses have been accepted for 531 days without any action), Wolves (where the investor vote was ignored), Sheds (where it’s suggested our first charge will be dropped to a second charge)... the list goes on. Do we honestly feel that LY is acting in our best interests? Rather than mudslinging what I would say is LY are out of their depth, they are lacking the skills and experience to execute recovery strategies. I do NOT want to force them into administration but I do want to send in help as they’ve totally lost control. What would you suggest? A request to the regulators co-signed by those who would want to? That might not be a bad idea. I think the FCA should be more proactive here, sitting on the shore eating ice cream whilst watching the Lendy ship sink is not what I’d expect. Unless I’ve misunderstood the role of the regulator, offering guidance should be expected here. Whether LY is forced into administration or it happens naturally I believe that’s the only way this is going to end. Lendy has stopped lending, they (and the press) have destroyed their good name. I don’t see any way back for them.
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Nov 24, 2018 10:18:29 GMT
What would you suggest? A request to the regulators co-signed by those who would want to? That might not be a bad idea. I think the FCA should be more proactive here, sitting on the shore eating ice cream whilst watching the Lendy ship sink is not what I’d expect. Unless I’ve misunderstood the role of the regulator, offering guidance should be expected here. Whether LY is forced into administration or it happens naturally I believe that’s the only way this is going to end. Lendy has stopped lending, they (and the press) have destroyed their good name. I don’t see any way back for them. They just rebrand themselves as Lendy Wealth.
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Post by loftankerman on Nov 24, 2018 11:31:59 GMT
I often wonder if some people think ' Capital may be at risk' is just a 'Project Fear' ploy by those who wish to keep all the juicy 12% loans to themselves and their mates. I decided how much of a 100% loss I could shrug off and have less than that invested in Lendy. I don't anticipate a 100% loss anyway, unless of course some n*b heads decide that the best way to save this sinking ship is to cut a hole in the bottom to let the water out.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Nov 24, 2018 12:00:26 GMT
would lendy make available to download my loan contracts between myself and the details of what i have signed up for by lending[not investing]to these people/SPVs/LTD.COs.it seems lendy are clinging on at the moment,but with nothing getting anywhere near funded and not likely to for the forseeable it does not look good for any of us.our biggest borrower recently had 2 ccjs against him for a mere 8k, ok lendy say this has now been sorted but does not give much hope for the millions tied up waiting for refinance on pie in the sky GDVs that are going to bite us all in the ar*e.as these loans are between myself and many different entities am i not entitled to a copy of each contract or have i lost that right by agreeing to lendys T@Cs.as with a lot of lenders i am finding all this p2p business very frustrating at the moment and whether i have been stupid/niave/to trusting or whatever this is certainly not what my idea of what P2P lending is all about.i really hope lendy are around long enough to salvage the best returns for all lenders.
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