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Post by mike1963 on Nov 27, 2018 2:38:27 GMT
I do wonder if I'm on a different planet today.
So the administrators have now had a good look around and all the chattel loans seem to actually exist. Those Jewellery Grouped Asset Loans and the bling items actually exist, the borrowers haven't vanished into thin air and there is actually stock being surrendered, even if it is unlikely to be worth anything near the numbers the LTVs are based on (and given retail pricing tends to incorporate a 50% margin just what was everyone expecting?). Auction fees will take another bite, but some value will be extracted.
For a platform failure where the directors were not called Michael and Gabriel this is not a bad result.
Totally agree with this post! The Chattel loans are documented and the assets can be sold, albeit likely insufficient to cover the loans. This should have been done and the borrowers pursued for any shortfall, for which they are still liable, via the courts or debt collection agencies if necessary. This would close one of the 2 loan portfolios and allow the Administrators to focus on the far more difficult Property Loan book.
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TenKay
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Post by TenKay on Nov 27, 2018 8:13:37 GMT
Is that really 6 months work? Even Robin Hood wore a mask. Very disheartened AGAIN no he didnt, he robbed from the rich to give to the poor, i think you mean Dick Turpin
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 27, 2018 9:08:03 GMT
Not received it yet.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 27, 2018 9:14:53 GMT
ilmoro said FCA approved platforms are required to have winding up plan but Collateral were not approved. They did have a funded winding up plan but it was rejected by the FCA so a moot point.
Once this is all over there may be a case to be made that the FCA's handling has been wasteful of investors money.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 9:31:00 GMT
Well, no real surprises here.
BDO and the committee have a thankless task, I think I've said that before.
That they cost money was never going to be a suprise.
I've assumed that I'm not going to see any of this cash for a couple of years and I expect to see only 70% returned.
Still very few decisions made in the last 6 months, I understand that collecting information takes time, but good IT should sort out this pile of data pretty quickly if they have a good guy, if not this will just bleed money.
FCA, the question has to be, "have you performed well?" sadly, I suspect no.
If anyone has a better plan than sitting on their hands let me know.
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tommytaylor
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Post by tommytaylor on Nov 27, 2018 9:35:11 GMT
Well, no real surprises here.
BDO and the committee have a thankless task, I think I've said that before.
That they cost money was never going to be a suprise.
I've assumed that I'm not going to see any of this cash for a couple of years and I expect to see only 70% returned.
Still very few decisions made in the last 6 months, I understand that collecting information takes time, but good IT should sort out this pile of data pretty quickly if they have a good guy, if not this will just bleed money.
FCA, the question has to be, "have you performed well?" sadly, I suspect no.
If anyone has a better plan than sitting on their hands let me know.
I think we might just get a little bit more than 70% Bobo. I presume it all depends on who of us is in which particular loans. Some might get lucky and have all there loans paid eventually while some of us will be strung out a little longer but still hopeful for a decent return. I dont suppose we will get around 3 years interest at 12% when its all wound down?
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capucino
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Post by capucino on Nov 27, 2018 9:57:14 GMT
Once this is all over there may be a case to be made that the FCA's handling has been wasteful of investors money.
Absolutely.
The FCA could have handled this much better.
He could have ordered the company to stop taking new client and new money, continue to pay essential bill to preserve the business (IT...) and then redeem what loans could be redeemed and help other borrowers refinance elsewhere, Appoint a 'skilled person' to oversee this.
Now huge sums of money are being spent just to retrieve the data, absolutely bonkers.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Nov 27, 2018 10:50:56 GMT
A lot of people are annoyed at lack of progress (me included) Some are advocating complaints to BDO.
Could I just point out that EVERY email sent would require a reply (probably on template) Which would attract a large fee payable to BDO and removed from money eventually recovered. An ever ending spiral as there would be more complaints as fees increase exponentially.
Could I suggest we just ask committee members to put our points at next meeting. They have proved themselves to be very helpful and approachable and excellent advocates on our behalf
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Nov 27, 2018 11:03:41 GMT
ilmoro said FCA approved platforms are required to have winding up plan but Collateral were not approved. They did have a funded winding up plan but it was rejected by the FCA so a moot point.
Once this is all over there may be a case to be made that the FCA's handling has been wasteful of investors money. Not "may be", there IS a case. They are culpable and if they don't "mea culpa" and compensate then we'll have their guts for garters.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 27, 2018 11:33:45 GMT
I do wonder if I'm on a different planet today.
So the administrators have now had a good look around and all the chattel loans seem to actually exist. Those Jewellery Grouped Asset Loans and the bling items actually exist, the borrowers haven't vanished into thin air and there is actually stock being surrendered, even if it is unlikely to be worth anything near the numbers the LTVs are based on (and given retail pricing tends to incorporate a 50% margin just what was everyone expecting?). Auction fees will take another bite, but some value will be extracted.
For a platform failure where the directors were not called Michael and Gabriel this is not a bad result. Totally agree with this post! The Chattel loans are documented and the assets can be sold, albeit likely insufficient to cover the loans. This should have been done and the borrowers pursued for any shortfall, for which they are still liable, via the courts or debt collection agencies if necessary. This would close one of the 2 loan portfolios and allow the Administrators to focus on the far more difficult Property Loan book. Me three.
I wonder if some of the responses are from people who've done anything more than just glance through the document - although frankly I suspect that anything shy of "Here's 100% of your money, including all back interest to date, and a healthy sum of compo to say sorry" would get similar responses.
Yes, the ongoing lack of access to the full investor-loan mapping is a serious disappointment. But reading between the lines of the report, they are trying. And let's not forget that the failure to have this information is ENTIRELY down to RR, who should have prioritised getting access to it on their appointment, and should have handed it over in full to BDO. Instead, they either didn't bother, or actively hindered. That, with the missing money from the accounts, is where criminal focus should lie, if anywhere.
Yes, the administration ends in April. As it's always been going to. Frankly, since COL is clearly not a going concern, I'd even wonder why it's that far away. For me, the biggest problem in this is the "trust claim" question (bottom of p7). As I'm reading that, if the investor-loan mapping remains unavailable, then we are viewed as unsecured creditors. If it is cracked, then we are first in line for those individual loans as "trust" claims. I would rather see the "trust" claims pooled, in the event that the mapping is unavailable, since it's undeniable that we are in the same position. The £708k creditors (if they're validated) would be behind "trust" claims, but on a par if we're viewed as unsecured creditors. Monetus - can you confirm my interpretation? Section 11 suggests that only those with 5%+ of the total debt - if we go with the ~£17m loan book figures, that's £850k - can query the administration report direct with BDO. However, I assume the creditor's committee can perform that on our behalf.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 27, 2018 11:46:03 GMT
Well, I've read it a few times now and slept on it (metaphorically!) - but I find nothing of significance which gives me any solace. I always believed that the FCA would be hanging us out to dry when they appointed BDO - but I'd previously dared to hold out a little hope I would be wrong and it would not be quite as bad as I feared. Regrettably, the reality of the interim report seems actually worse than even my most pessimistic previous assessment. From my perspective we are now well and truly in the (economic) killing field (with no cover in sight) and with the FCA licensed assassins BDO showing they have already zeroed their weapons to bring down accurate and sustained fire and thereby create maximum (economic) casualties amongst us. I see no sign whatsoever (even a pretence) that they are seriously working for investors/creditors benefit - in fact the report looks akin to a long detailed invoice to me (probably the first of many) 'for services not yet rendered' - and guess who's paying? I saw (I think it was bobo?) suggesting we'll perhaps get back 70% (ish)? At this juncture that would look a very good outcome to me. Furthermore, I note a few serial optimists are now showing above the ramparts - I can only hope that you are correct and I am wrong - as ever, time will tell.
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jo
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Post by jo on Nov 27, 2018 11:46:26 GMT
Nor me - perhaps they decided to pay me in full? (Narrator's voice: 'They hadn't.')
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Nov 27, 2018 12:07:27 GMT
Read through it last night and disappointed although not surprised. I like others have a technical background that gives me confidence to say that the recovered data should have been reconciled to accounts by now. I would question if the right people are working on that. The objective is to map accounts to loans/cash as quickly and accurately as possible. Are the right decisions being made in that respect.
A greater concern for me is the level of progress in recovering loans. I would expect far more progress and a tough stance especially were borrowers have failed to engage. Loans that clearly need more funding had to have started refinance process months ago, if they can't get finance then administrators need to be appointed.
I'm not happy with the costs versus progress but until loans are recovered there is no money.
The fact they state an end by April also concerns me. How can matters be concluded by then with so little progress made on recoveries. If administrators are required on multiple loans then there's no way that will happen.
Im hoping the CC can apply pressure to focus BDO in these areas otherwise may as well hit snooze and come back in another six months.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Nov 27, 2018 12:11:52 GMT
Just wanted to quickly clarify something that somebody asked me via PM: I haven't received any further updates from BDO since the previous Committee Meeting on September 26th 2018 so some of the contents of this latest report are as much news to me as they are to you.
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archie
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Post by archie on Nov 27, 2018 12:23:28 GMT
Report is now on the BDO website here.
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