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Post by mrclondon on Dec 7, 2018 20:04:56 GMT
An extract (my bold)
fundingsecure - Whilst welcoming your intention to provide more information on the loans, I remain concerned that you still don't understand the type of information that lenders, especially professional investors, require to be able to assess risk correctly. You refer specifically to the Lad****k loan, yet you haven't made any attempt to provide the cashflow forecast that I suggested would be helpful in this post. The current tranche might just be coaxed over the line if there was an understanding on how many further calls for funds there will be. I have two specific areas of concern with how you are presenting loans to investors: a) An absence in most cases of details of other FS loans to the same or connected entities so that investors can manage their exposure to a given borrower. There are dozens of examples here, but three topical cases i) Lad****k and Wood*** Farm ii) Ash****** Avenue and W******* Road both in London iii) the multitude of art loans that are subject to litigation recovery. b) Inaccurate / inadequate descriptions of how the loan is secured. Again dozens of examples, but three specific cases i) Ash****** Avenue ( details) appears to have no FS charges at the land registry, ii) Barnoldswick Terraced House ( details) again appears to have no FS charge at land registry, and the wrong photo on the loan. Similiar concerns with the Burnley loan which is assumed to be to the same borrower. iii) Land in Lytham St Annes which is I believe an example of an assignment of the legal charge, but this fact is omitted from the loan details to explain why there is no FS charge at the land registry.
The practise of redacting information to prevent lenders from correctly identifying the loan security and/or the borrower is quite frankly a childish game, and should have no place in a reputable financial organisation. If I can't identify the asset and the borrower and do my own risk assement on both, I don't lend.
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Post by df on Dec 7, 2018 21:49:37 GMT
The first part of this newsletter "Marketing moves" makes me feel a bit wary.
I'm not sure if "innovative taxi advertising campaign" is an effective tool for attracting new lenders. Investing/lending is a niche market...
The image of a child wearing glasses and bow tie is not very appealing and the blurb "investing with us is a child's play" is very misleading.
Other slogans are worrying too: “We want to let the world know that FundingSecure has an investment that will work for anyone that is interested. There is a better and more interesting way to generate investment returns, and we can show you how.” - this is not true. The model doesn't work for everyone. It may be an interesting way to generate returns, but so far (at least in my experience) I see it as an interesting way to generate losses and it is very difficult to imagine FS as a 'guru' showing us how to do it.
Not sure if FS is in tune. If the aim is to attract more retail investors they should change the product to something that competes on p2p market prior to advertising. If it is to attract professional investors then advertising on "iconic black cabs across London" doesn't sound like they know where the priorities are.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 7, 2018 22:00:33 GMT
mcrclondon states some very important facts without emotion which is probably the right thing to do.
I feel like adding some emotion. I frankly can't believe some of the points raised need raising. I'm staggered that it is even possible to advertise that there is a first legal charge over a property when there apparently isn't or there is no explanation from FS as to why there apparently isn't. Unlike some of my peers, I am not an expert in financial regulation. However, I would be amazed if this sort of behavior is allowed in a country with supposedly some of the most sophisticated financial services in the world.
I also noticed in the newsletter that their focus seems to have pivoted towards lenders presumably because the investment tap is closing. You might have thought a focus would be on trying to please their existing lender base but no sadly the focus appears to be recruiting new ones. That sounds familiar. Isn't that what Lendy tried?
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 7, 2018 22:10:45 GMT
You want some emotion, do you ? 
OK then, in my considered opinion anyone lending on property loans where FS do not provide an adequate explanation of why there are no charges recorded at the land registry is certifiably mad. The loan must be evaluated as if it was an unsecured loan.
The problem here should be obvious ... that means avoiding all loans when first offered, and only buying on the SM or at the first renewal once it is possible to verify there is a charge against the security. If everyone did that .....
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mariner
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Post by mariner on Dec 7, 2018 22:14:42 GMT
Re The advertising campaign, one would have thought that FS would have employed professionals to run it........but no, go with the brainchild of an ex glue salesman, beggars belief, it really does
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arby
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Post by arby on Dec 7, 2018 22:17:24 GMT
To give credit where it's due, the description of the loan they direct us to is at least an improvement over the usual "we've got a charge over a property that's worth £x so give us your money".
As for taxis in London; I think some people may be overestimating the smarts of a typical London worker- having recently moved out of London financial services, I'm still shocked at all the daft ways that such supposedly astute financially aware people (accountants, actuaries and bankers) could be parted from their money.
And yes, I do appreciate that I may very well be one of those fools with my FS investment....
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Dec 7, 2018 23:42:36 GMT
FS need to up their game - not just try to bring in novice punters.
This is my largest platform. I have a good holding of first charge, low LTV loans that I should be confident seeing pay back with interest.
I've been able to recycle recent repayments but it is becoming increasingly difficult.
I can see the time when I'll get some repayments and won't see anything here that I'd want to buy. Most of my good loans may be close to repaying so I'll need to consider where that takes me.
I also need to see FS improve their professionalism. Whitehaven, Barnoldswick/Burnley, Art loans should all have been better protected.
Believing borrowers at face value / not registering property charges is completely unacceptable.
I wish FS well and hope that new changes are for the better. I've read today of some well respected posters here getting out of FS. I'm willing to stick around if there are apparently good loans that I can pick up.
Just do your job properly and don't let me down.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Dec 8, 2018 8:15:56 GMT
‘Better the devil you don’t know than the devil you know’ seems to be their positive marketing move. Actions speak louder than words but it would take a while before a number of newbies realise that, that sometimes ‘funding secure’ could mean ‘funding insecure’ particularly on property loans. Consequently, it’s not flabbergasting they’re highly sought at this juncture as several loans are filling at snail’s pace.
While the intent to improve loan presentation is laudable, it’s too little too late.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Dec 8, 2018 8:17:05 GMT
That taxi stunt is a disgrace. This kind of investment has no association with simplicity that "investing with us is child's play" implies. It is very high risk. Its exactly the kind of poorly thought out idea that the FCA is unlikely to approve of and will be held as an example of the low standards FS when ptop becomes better regulated to improve protection of lenders. That regulation cant come soon enough in my view
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Dec 8, 2018 9:18:46 GMT
I'm sure investors in Whitehaven, Mixed Use Liverpool, Wind Turbine, Power Boats, Art Loans, Scottish Boatyard, Knaresborough and countless others all consider investing in FS to be "child's play" also. It certainly feels like children are in charge sometimes.  |
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arby
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Post by arby on Dec 8, 2018 11:16:24 GMT
That taxi stunt is a disgrace. This kind of investment has no association with simplicity that "investing with us is child's play" implies. It is very high risk. Its exactly the kind of poorly thought out idea that the FCA is unlikely to approve of and will be held as an example of the low standards FS when ptop becomes better regulated to improve protection of lenders. That regulation cant come soon enough in my view The actual method of inesting is child's play and much simpler than many other investment methods. I actually interpreted that way. You're suggesting that the ad implies returns are guaranteed. On that point it comes down to interpretation and I agree that if something can be misinterpreted then it's not good
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madpierre
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Post by madpierre on Dec 8, 2018 19:08:35 GMT
In my opinion there are two types of investors in fundingsecure . There are those who are “Certifiably Mad”as MrcLondon succinctly puts it and there are those who play the system to take advantage of the “certifiably Mad”, although I appreciate some of the latter may not see it that way (by avoiding soul searching). Oh, ok there are a few (probably mrcLondon and a select few who actually do their own DD to their own satisfaction and hold to term). From a DD perspective FS are wholly incompetent, so no one should ever trust the quality of loans on offer (sadly FS are not alone in this failing). Yes some get through to term and repay but more by luck than judgment. From a recovery perspective FS are also wholly incompetent as they rarely pursue non-payment unless it is clear they can obtain a successful outcome. Otherwise, they have a can and steel-toed boots and a very long road to exploit. One thing I can never understand though is how they train their monkeys to read a script? I have not put any new money into FS for about two years, but I am still heavily invested with them. In my view fundingsecure represent everything that is bad about the P2P industry, which was until so recently a new hope for investors. They are not alone and I dare say I could have equally posted this on the Lendy Support platform  |
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Dec 8, 2018 20:56:32 GMT
In my opinion there are two types of investors in fundingsecure . There are those who are “Certifiably Mad”as MrcLondon succinctly puts it and there are those who play the system to take advantage of the “certifiably Mad”, although I appreciate some of the latter may not see it that way (by avoiding soul searching). Oh, ok there are a few (probably mrcLondon and a select few who actually do their own DD to their own satisfaction and hold to term). From a DD perspective FS are wholly incompetent, so no one should ever trust the quality of loans on offer (sadly FS are not alone in this failing). Yes some get through to term and repay but more by luck than judgment. From a recovery perspective FS are also wholly incompetent as they rarely pursue non-payment unless it is clear they can obtain a successful outcome. Otherwise, they have a can and steel-toed boots and a very long road to exploit. One thing I can never understand though is how they train their monkeys to read a script? I have not put any new money into FS for about two years, but I am still heavily invested with them. In my view fundingsecure represent everything that is bad about the P2P industry, which was until so recently a new hope for investors. They are not alone and I dare say I could have equally posted this on the Lendy Support platform
spot on madpierre.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 8, 2018 21:44:37 GMT
As Alexander Meerkat says “Simples” ..slow down in market in Lendy due to snail 🐌 pace repayments
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Dec 9, 2018 11:49:44 GMT
Does anyone know what the "wider product range" is that is referred to in the newsletter.
Hopefully it's not more property loans.
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