oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 6, 2014 13:46:56 GMT
Hi markr  I appreciate what you say re MR. I did not choose MR. I chose "your rate". I chose to lend at below market rate. It does not need an algorithm. I stipulate 5.9%. RS does it. But it didn't. If the system can't do it, it should be repaired or ditched. PS You'll be glad to know the order was matched about half an hour ago (as has Kev's). Rather that than be in a £1m queue for an extra 0.1% which I didn't ask for. Rate%Setter says the header. I have chosen to lend £*** At my selected Rate, says the page. So do it. |
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markr
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Post by markr on Nov 6, 2014 19:06:34 GMT
I thought Your Rate lends at Market Rate, but only down to your "floor", so if you set 5.9% but MR is 6.0%, it will offer 6.0%. Have I misunderstood (I don't use YR so I may well have done)?
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 6, 2014 19:30:22 GMT
If I put in in manually at "my rate" it goes straight in at "my rate" today 5.9% and then gets lent, like today. How else did Kev get rid of his thousands at 5.9% today before I did if he hadn't set something at 5.9%? He wasn't diverted to 6% (as far as he admits, anyway  ) Therefore B******S (no offence, Mark) to market rate if I set "my rate", then market rate should be irrelevant. I stand by my case - if it can't do it, ditch it. It shouldn't even be offered. We're back into, "computer says 'no' " terrain here. Don't worry Kev - I'm not gunning for you again. Reading the blurb below the "set your rate bit" it does explain. Maybe this should be above our choice boxes, not below, so with your new "better--ahem!" website we have to scroll down on every page to see what's important. What is important is my next statement. RATESETTER DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO PRE-SET A RATE TO RE-INVEST REPAYMENTS BELOW WHAT THEY DEEM MARKET RATE FOR THAT DAY. THE INSTRUCTION WILL NOT BE HONOURED.
TO ACHIEVE THIS GOAL, EACH DAY'S RE-INVESTMENT ORDER MUST BE DONE YOURSELF MANUALLY TAKING THE FUNDS FROM YOUR HOLDING ACCOUNT (HAVING PREVIOUSLY DISABLED ALL RE-INVESTMENT INSTRUCTIONS).
No wonder Kev doesn't like it. I don't now.
PS You won't find OG at the end of a £1m queue tomorrow - I never like to start a day much more than about £400K back, then usually all is lent within 36 hours.
End of rant. Bananas all round.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 6, 2014 20:50:01 GMT
If you put it in manually at 5.9% it goes in the queue at 5.9%. If you put it in as 're invest at my rate' and set my rate to 5.9%, it goes in at the higher of 5.9% or market rate .. At least that's my understanding. Unobvious, but true.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 6, 2014 21:03:12 GMT
If you put it in manually at 5.9% it goes in the queue at 5.9%. If you put it in as 're invest at my rate' and set my rate to 5.9%, it goes in at the higher of 5.9% or market rate .. At least that's my understanding. Unobvious, but true. Hi GSV3MIaC
I've just been finishing off my "essay" for the day - cross posted with your totally accurate and concise reading of the situation. I understand what it does now. I just wish it didn't.
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Post by westonkevRS on Nov 6, 2014 21:38:19 GMT
I thought Your Rate lends at Market Rate, but only down to your "floor", so if you set 5.9% but MR is 6.0%, it will offer 6.0%. Have I misunderstood (I don't use YR so I may well have done)? YR is a one day offer only. If you use YR then your money joins the queue at a "YR" that is the highest of YR and MR. But if you don't lend that day and the MR drops (even within a single 2dp band) your money stays at that "YR" and can be stranded. My personal use, don't use YR. It doesn't act as a ongoing floor, it just fixes your lending at a single higher rate than the potential MR. Kevin.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 6, 2014 22:15:59 GMT
What OG really needs/wants is to be able to set a 'my rate' which is always defined as market rate -0.1%. Some folks might want MR+0.1% instead. Not currently possible.
But then maybe we don't want an automated queue jump mechanism?
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Post by rarrar on Nov 6, 2014 22:52:04 GMT
So if you cant place money on the market below the MR - above discussion suggests that if YR is below MR it gets moved up to match - then how does the MR ever fall or get dragged down by people lending at well below what was MR.
Totally confused as I always use YR and it seems to always do what I expect.
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Post by pepperpot on Nov 6, 2014 23:34:23 GMT
So if you cant place money on the market below the MR - above discussion suggests that if YR is below MR it gets moved up to match - then how does the MR ever fall or get dragged down by people lending at well below what was MR. Totally confused as I always use YR and it seems to always do what I expect. By too many people doing an oldgrumpy and getting desperate by undercutting us sensible types
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Post by westonkevRS on Nov 7, 2014 7:50:13 GMT
So if you cant place money on the market below the MR - above discussion suggests that if YR is below MR it gets moved up to match - then how does the MR ever fall or get dragged down by people lending at well below what was MR. Totally confused as I always use YR and it seems to always do what I expect. If all the MR money is lent then you wouldn't notice, or if the MR increases. Recently with the high lending volumes and increasing rates any money at YR/MR has been lent. The issue is only if it's a slower lending day and the MR drops below your YR/MR. This has happened recently as the rates dropped from the 6.4% high and volumes drippped from record levels. My recommendation is either just use MR (without YR) or just place your orders manually at the rate you want.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 7, 2014 9:46:46 GMT
What OG really needs/wants is to be able to set a 'my rate' which is always defined as market rate -0.1%. Some folks might want MR+0.1% instead. Not currently possible. But then maybe we don't want an automated queue jump mechanism? No I don't. I want the rate I choose to be used at six in the morning (or whatever time the daily automatic process is done) rather have having to do it myself manually at 10:00 (or whatever) when I eventually get online. Recently there was about £200K in 5.9% so I called that market rate and wanted to join it. RS decided 6% was market rate so put me in that at about £1.2M. Sometimes I want 0.3% above (what I believe will be) market rate, because in late evening I see many tens of thousands scattered over three or four levels of interest, which I think will be cleared within a day or so. I don't care if I get stranded when it is my choice of rate (and the queues are moving correctly).
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 7, 2014 10:03:00 GMT
Here's a theoretical but relevant question for westonkevRS. Scenario today: Market rate was set this morning at 6%. There is a million pounds in the pot! Due to brilliant advertising and a sudden cult status of purple dominated web-pages. another £400K is placed in manually at 5.9% by several new savers, leaving the whole £1m stranded for a day or more. Then various dastardly queue jumpers put in another £20K or so scattered down to 5.8%,5.7%,5.6% etc. So, we have £1M at 6.0%, £420K at 5.9%. My cousin, Old Rumpy the Red decides at 11:00 am to join RS on my recommendation and puts in £2000 and asks for market rate. What is market rate now, with all that cash (about a day's worth) in at 5.9%? Is it 5.9% or is it still 6.0%?
Final bit. If by tomorrow morning there is still around £200K waiting at 5.9%, will all those market rate orders placed today at 6% be adjusted down to 5.9% if that is the new market rate? (I think I saw that happen the other day when a load of MR cash which was in at 6.1% transferred down to 6% the next day) Have a nice second breakfast |
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warn
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Post by warn on Nov 7, 2014 12:01:13 GMT
What we really need when talking about this issue, long a thorn in my side, is a new term - say, VMR. Variable Market Rate is a figure calculated once a day by RS, and applied to all reinvestments that have the "Market Rate" box ticked and the "Your Rate" box empty. In addition, if today's VMR is lower than yesterday's VMR, then any of yesterday's VMR-assigned offers that are still unborrowed are rerated at today's VMR. That's the only way an offer rate will change, unless you do it manually. All reinvestments that have a "Your Rate" are offered at a fixed rate - the higher of YR and whatever today's VMR happens to be. But they don't join the VMR bandwagon - i.e. they will not be repriced tomorrow even if tomorrow's VMR is lower. So you can quite easily have a YR at 5.5%, go on offer at say 6%, and be "stranded" there even if VMR drops to 4.8%. It's stupid behaviour, and I refuse to believe that it's deliberate design, but that's the way it is and we have to fart around dealing with it. My major beef is that the wording of the documentation sets up a very different (and indeed reasonable) expectation, and it's when expectations aren't met that some action needs to be taken, even if it's only changing the documentation to fit the behaviour. But they don't, and every now and then someone new gets caught. oldgrumpy, your cousin may want to put his new investment on at VMR, but can't. As you say, he'll just have to assign a fixed rate that he hopes will shift, and monitor it daily until it goes. I don't think there's any way that you can add new money at VMR (the documentation implies that a regular investment can be, but I find it hard to believe). |
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Post by westonkevRS on Nov 7, 2014 14:06:14 GMT
Here's a theoretical but relevant question for westonkevRS. Scenario today: Market rate was set this morning at 6%. There is a million pounds in the pot! Due to brilliant advertising and a sudden cult status of purple dominated web-pages. another £400K is placed in manually at 5.9% by several new savers, leaving the whole £1m stranded for a day or more. Then various dastardly queue jumpers put in another £20K or so scattered down to 5.8%,5.7%,5.6% etc. So, we have £1M at 6.0%, £420K at 5.9%. My cousin, Old Rumpy the Red decides at 11:00 am to join RS on my recommendation and puts in £2000 and asks for market rate. What is market rate now, with all that cash (about a day's worth) in at 5.9%? Is it 5.9% or is it still 6.0%?
Final bit. If by tomorrow morning there is still around £200K waiting at 5.9%, will all those market rate orders placed today at 6% be adjusted down to 5.9% if that is the new market rate? (I think I saw that happen the other day when a load of MR cash which was in at 6.1% transferred down to 6% the next day) Have a nice second breakfast Luckily most lenders are don't use the YR functionality; so there lending will track the MR downwards which is based on actual matches (and not just where money sits in the queue). So I'd guess 5.9%; with most of the £1m moving downwards to 5.9%. Leaving "stranded" those that use the YR functionality. That's why I don't use it, wouldn't recommend anyone else use it, and don't understand forum members who stubbornly refuse to stop using it! Yet still log on every day to see what's happening....
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 7, 2014 14:20:16 GMT
"That's why I don't use it, wouldn't recommend anyone else use it, and don't understand forum members who stubbornly refuse to stop using it! Yet still log on every day to see what's happening...."
I only used it to save getting up early in the morning to place my desired order... I only log in every day to see what's happening because what I wanted didn't happen ... I shall stop using it except when I actually want to set a floor for a short period. Other times I shall re-invest manually as and when necessary.
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) Therefore B******S (no offence, Mark) to market rate if I set "my rate", then market rate should be irrelevant. I stand by my case - if it can't do it, ditch it. It shouldn't even be offered.
