ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 9, 2020 12:13:13 GMT
Now why would Administrators embark on "poor marketing"? * Being on hourly rates (as long as there's loot in the coffers) they have no incentive to string sales out? In fact, Administrators are VERY efficient, I am always constantly amazed at how good they are at timing the final winding up of a company with just enough left to still pay their fees. Uncanny that, takes real skill, they're VERY good at their job aren't they. PS - * Or, indeed, instruct poor value, incompetent agents?
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Oct 9, 2020 14:29:38 GMT
Nice to get plenty of notice on full and final offers being invited. The deadline is tomorrow. Really not sure how hard the appointed agents are marketing G*sp*rt. When I checked their website on 28 August and again yesterday it wasn't even listed! Poor marketing is one of my main concerns about this administration. If you are an investor, why dont you ask CG & Co to provide details or a link ?....one assumes its on the "open" market and not being hawked between ahem 'possible interested individuals' to take it off their hands ?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 9, 2020 15:22:47 GMT
Really not sure how hard the appointed agents are marketing G*sp*rt. When I checked their website on 28 August and again yesterday it wasn't even listed! Poor marketing is one of my main concerns about this administration. If you are an investor, why dont you ask CG & Co to provide details or a link ?....one assumes its on the "open" market and not being hawked between ahem 'possible interested individuals' to take it off their hands ? It was certainly marketed around May / June time and you can still find traces of it on the 'aggregator' sites (the ones that scrape Agent's sites and collate it all together) but Agents will primarily target their 'hot list' of clients for dev opportunities rather than relying solely on open marketing. Again for dev sites, Agents can be quite vague about areas so searching for something specific like - as in this case - an extant planning permission reference can yield better results than using something like a postcode, for example. I suspect that LSH have gone to those parties that - as indicated in the updates - previously expressed and interest / made offers and requested 'best & final' from those, rather than relaunch the marketing completely. Doesn't necessarily mean the highest offer will be accepted. As seen with the "D**w**t Road, Liverpool" security, auction is still an option.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Oct 9, 2020 15:57:08 GMT
Out of interest, why would someone pay £124.6K non refundable deposit and then not raise sufficient capital to finance the rest ? After 3 sets of vultures have gorged their fill on the Southampton carcass, I wonder what will be left. "The personal guarantee will remain in place"...does that mean the borrower/guarantor will be pursued when the dust settles ?
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Post by overthehill on Oct 9, 2020 16:06:54 GMT
I've lost the thread on this particular debacle but it looks like the borrower was trying to dig himself out of a hole and he probably had some spare cash from all our under secured loans. I guess he picked the wrong week to give up smoking and drinking.
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Post by stankroenke1 on Oct 9, 2020 16:17:15 GMT
Re Greenwich loan @805k they have accepted 125k supposedly 62%. LTV anyone have an idea of the return % after fees ? Thanks
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 9, 2020 16:38:52 GMT
A very good question - I have been thinking about this I would say - is this really a non-refundable deposit - there may be a get-out clause which FS have overlooked? Maybe he took a punt and thought he could get the re-financing Is the chap who paid the deposit related to the orginal borrower - you never know! Whatever does not ring true and I hate to think what is going on here I can foresee we lenders losing well over £2m over his bloke's developments - wonder if the £6m he took all went on the developments - course it did!
Yet another total horlicks which I hope FS can be sued over.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Oct 9, 2020 17:21:52 GMT
A very good question - I have been thinking about this I would say - is this really a non-refundable deposit - there may be a get-out clause which FS have overlooked? Maybe he took a punt and thought he could get the re-financing Is the chap who paid the deposit related to the orginal borrower - you never know! Whatever does not ring true and I hate to think what is going on here I can foresee we lenders losing well over £2m over his bloke's developments - wonder if the £6m he took all went on the developments - course it did! Yet another total horlicks which I hope FS can be sued over. As Adrian has alluded to, possibly when a "Non-Refundable Deposit" turns out to be, errrrr, Refundable? !!!! Always remember, this is FS you're dealing with, those who possessed Masters Degrees & PHDs in Ethics & Truth Economics.
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sundown
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Post by sundown on Oct 9, 2020 17:31:50 GMT
Out of interest, why would someone pay £124.6K non refundable deposit and then not raise sufficient capital to finance the rest ? After 3 sets of vultures have gorged their fill on the Southampton carcass, I wonder what will be left. "The personal guarantee will remain in place"...does that mean the borrower/guarantor will be pursued when the dust settles ?Hopefully yes. There also seems to be a good case to chase the valuer on some of these loans.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 9, 2020 18:54:34 GMT
A very good question - I have been thinking about this I would say - is this really a non-refundable deposit - there may be a get-out clause which FS have overlooked? Maybe he took a punt and thought he could get the re-financing Is the chap who paid the deposit related to the orginal borrower - you never know! Whatever does not ring true and I hate to think what is going on here I can foresee we lenders losing well over £2m over his bloke's developments - wonder if the £6m he took all went on the developments - course it did! Yet another total horlicks which I hope FS can be sued over. As Adrian has alluded to, possibly when a "Non-Refundable Deposit" turns out to be, errrrr, Refundable? !!!! Always remember, this is FS you're dealing with, those who possessed Masters Degrees & PHDs in Ethics & Truth Economics. On this occasion, though, the Borrower (presumably under the legal title of a separate entity) finalised the arrangements with - and paid the money over to - the Administrators charged with dealing that Borrower's various securities, which is Quantuma rather than FS / CG&Co. eg: from the Gosport update - " A non-refundable deposit had been paid to Quantuma, [etc]" As you are fond of saying ozboy - insolvency practioners are very good at extracting other peoples money, so I don't think they would confuse 'Non-Refundable' and 'Refundable'. Do you?
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Oct 21, 2020 10:06:51 GMT
Loan Reference: 2067616420 An update has just been added to a loan that you have an investment in.
UPDATE: As previously advised Quantuma were appointed Administrators of the corporate borrower by its director. Their appointed agents, Lambert Smith Hampton, were marketing the property with a guide price of £800,000, and best and final offers were called for 9 October 2020. Various offers were received and the highest offer of £<redacted> has been recommended for acceptance, and the sale is now proceeding. The personal guarantee will remain in place.
Loan Reference: 7224997259 An update has just been added to a loan that you have an investment in.
UPDATE: As previously advised Quantuma were appointed Administrators of the corporate borrower by its director. Their appointed agents, Lambert Smith Hampton, were marketing the property with a guide price of £600,000, and best and final offers were called for 9 October 2020. Various offers were received and the highest offer of £<redacted> has been recommended for acceptance, and the sale is now proceeding. The personal guarantee will remain in place.
Loan Reference: 2796468189 [ is this one of the Liverpools x3 ? ] An update has just been added to a loan that you have an investment in.
UPDATE: The party that had offered £<redacted> increased their offer to £<redacted>, which again was recommended for acceptance by Quantuma, the Administrators appointed by the corporate borrower, and the agents Lambert Smith Hampton. They had obtained auction appraisals in the meantime with guide prices ranging from £<redacted> to £<redacted>. It was therefore agreed that they proceed with the increased offer of £<redacted>. The personal guarantee will remain in place.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 21, 2020 11:17:51 GMT
I am not in these 3 but am in other ones related to this character
I am extremely unhappy about this - surely FS should have kept control of these assets and it should have been in the contract that administrators could only have been appointed with their permission? Would I be interested to see who bought these bargain-basement priced properties - damn right I would.
As to these 3 defaults - what a total shambles - if my maths are correct investors could lose over £2m here and the FS fee could be £165K...
Unbelievable.
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Post by portlandbill on Oct 21, 2020 17:38:41 GMT
It used to be unbelievable, now it's just "Oh, OK"
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 21, 2020 18:53:47 GMT
I am not in these 3 but am in other ones related to this character I am extremely unhappy about this - surely FS should have kept control of these assets and it should have been in the contract that administrators could only have been appointed with their permission? Would I be interested to see who bought these bargain-basement priced properties - damn right I would. As to these 3 defaults - what a total shambles - if my maths are correct investors could lose over £2m here and the FS fee could be £165K... Unbelievable. Power to appoint administrators is governed by Insolvency Law not loan contracts. Directors always have the power to appoint administrators to protect the company against creditors. However, it doesnt really matter who appoints, other than they get to pick the firm, the administrators will still owe duties to the company and creditors as a whole, not the directors and not the secured creditors alone.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 22, 2020 7:22:18 GMT
well that's the theory but not what my accounts lecturer (former business accountant) told me at college...
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