criston
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Post by criston on Jun 10, 2021 14:16:55 GMT
I believe 120 ranks before 124, but that is from memory.
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nick
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Post by nick on Jun 10, 2021 14:30:39 GMT
I believe 120 ranks before 124, but that is from memory. You are right - 120 is supported by debentures over the borrow plus some subsidiaries plus guarantees from four other subs. 124 is only supported by a chattels mortgage of selected assets.
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Post by ablrate on Jun 10, 2021 16:27:54 GMT
I believe 120 ranks before 124, but that is from memory. You are right - 120 is supported by debentures over the borrow plus some subsidiaries plus guarantees from four other subs. 124 is only supported by a chattels mortgage of selected assets. It's an all assets debenture, so there is no need to submit a debenture for the second loan. Basically if one defaults they both default and would rank equally.
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nick
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Post by nick on Jun 10, 2021 17:04:25 GMT
You are right - 120 is supported by debentures over the borrow plus some subsidiaries plus guarantees from four other subs. 124 is only supported by a chattels mortgage of selected assets. It's an all assets debenture, so there is no need to submit a debenture for the second loan. Basically if one defaults they both default and would rank equally. - thanks for clarifying that the loans rank equally. I note that the original borrowing proposal for loan 124 did not make it clear that it the loan would be pari passu with loan 120. By listing a different security suite, the borrowing proposal, gave the impression that the security was different and distinct to the security supporting loan 120. It may be worth amending the documentation to make it clear that the loans are pari passu to avoid any future confusion. I've noticed that the borrowing proposals for both loans no longer seem to be available under documents - they were there earlier today?
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 10, 2021 18:07:00 GMT
You are right - 120 is supported by debentures over the borrow plus some subsidiaries plus guarantees from four other subs. 124 is only supported by a chattels mortgage of selected assets. It's an all assets debenture, so there is no need to submit a debenture for the second loan. Basically if one defaults they both default and would rank equally. The addendum of 5 March 2021 para 5 lists separate and distinct securities for each loan number. No mention of pari passu there. Personally I agree that pari passu on pooled securities would be the best approach. I don't see how Ablrate could address this on the platform at present without frightening the horses.
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criston
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Post by criston on Jun 10, 2021 18:13:35 GMT
It's an all assets debenture, so there is no need to submit a debenture for the second loan. Basically if one defaults they both default and would rank equally. The addendum of 5 March 2021 para 5 lists separate and distinct securities for each loan number. No mention of pari passu there. Personally I agree that pari passu on pooled securities would be the best approach. I don't see how Ablrate could address this on the platform at present without frightening the horses. Although academic because of imminent redemption, the Well---ng loans had the same problem. 149 was never clear that the following tranches would rank equally.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jun 10, 2021 20:26:22 GMT
The addendum of 5 March 2021 para 5 lists separate and distinct securities for each loan number. No mention of pari passu there. Personally I agree that pari passu on pooled securities would be the best approach. I don't see how Ablrate could address this on the platform at present without frightening the horses. , the Well---ng loans had the same problem. 149 was never clear that the following tranches would rank equally. To clarify, do you mean these two VUL*** loans are due for imminent redemption? What kind of approximate timeline are we talking about? The maturity date for 120 is stated as 16/04/2022 on the platform and for 124 04/07/2022.
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criston
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Post by criston on Jun 10, 2021 20:40:22 GMT
Although academic because of imminent redemption, the Well---ng loans had the same problem. 149 was never clear that the following tranches would rank equally. To clarify, do you mean these two VUL*** loans are due for imminent redemption? What kind of approximate timeline are we talking about? The maturity date for 120 is stated as 16/04/2022 on the platform and for 124 04/07/2022. No, 149 & associated loans are due for redemption.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 10, 2021 20:47:26 GMT
Although academic because of imminent redemption, the Well---ng loans had the same problem. 149 was never clear that the following tranches would rank equally. To clarify, do you mean these two VUL*** loans are due for imminent redemption? What kind of approximate timeline are we talking about? The maturity date for 120 is stated as 16/04/2022 on the platform and for 124 04/07/2022. No. I think they are referring to 149 and the gang, which are anticipated to redeem. 120/124 would only seem to be redeemable if sufficient funds are raised on the shares? Not sure who the horses belong to, or if they are part of the assets.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 10, 2021 20:59:17 GMT
Although academic because of imminent redemption, the Well---ng loans had the same problem. 149 was never clear that the following tranches would rank equally. To clarify, do you mean these two VUL*** loans are due for imminent redemption? What kind of approximate timeline are we talking about? The maturity date for 120 is stated as 16/04/2022 on the platform and for 124 04/07/2022. No, the Well ... ing loans are due for imminent redemption. They also had a lack of clarity when it came to the security applicable to following tranches. The summary for #124 references a borrower debenture but the addendum outlining the current security doesnt. Why anyone is buying these Vul loans in the absence (due to LSE rules) of the original detailed borrower proposal (and an apparent lack of full disclosure of loan pricing in line with FCA regulations ie where are Ablrate fees disclosed as required by COBS 18.12.26 (10)) I dont know? Edit crossed with several while researching
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Post by ablrate on Jun 11, 2021 7:53:09 GMT
It's an all assets debenture, so there is no need to submit a debenture for the second loan. Basically if one defaults they both default and would rank equally. - thanks for clarifying that the loans rank equally. I note that the original borrowing proposal for loan 124 did not make it clear that it the loan would be pari passu with loan 120. By listing a different security suite, the borrowing proposal, gave the impression that the security was different and distinct to the security supporting loan 120. It may be worth amending the documentation to make it clear that the loans are pari passu to avoid any future confusion. I've noticed that the borrowing proposals for both loans no longer seem to be available under documents - they were there earlier today? I will have a note put on the system to clarify. that is a good shout on the borrowing proposal, I will look into that. The document and repayment information was launched on the Loan Exchange yesterday so it maybe a fat finger episode by the devs. Edit: Looked into this. The borrowing proposal was removed quite a long time ago because it was requested by the company at the behest of the exchange, so it won't have been there yesterday. As we have said before its always difficult with a listed business but as far as information goes there is probably more on this one than any other simply because of its listed status. The RNS data can be seen here; https://v*****nplc.com/share-price-and-tools.html
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Post by ablrate on Jun 11, 2021 7:57:33 GMT
As we know Ablrate have recently responded to this thread, I hope they deal with these missing documents. This is a serious matter & must be addressed. An explanation should also be given. As you will see on page two of the documents section 'Loan information data' all the loan fees are disclosed there.
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criston
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Post by criston on Jun 11, 2021 8:48:24 GMT
As we know Ablrate have recently responded to this thread, I hope they deal with these missing documents. This is a serious matter & must be addressed. An explanation should also be given. As you will see on page two of the documents section 'Loan information data' all the loan fees are disclosed there. Our posts coincided & I removed my post after the explanation.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jun 11, 2021 9:05:49 GMT
Sad that they are in this furore. One of the very few loans that I felt altruistic over and worthy of support :UK :Engineering etc.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 11, 2021 10:43:31 GMT
Deleted.
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