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Post by df on Feb 27, 2019 21:56:39 GMT
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Feb 27, 2019 22:54:34 GMT
Still, probably slightly more popular than a mass program of euthanasia and sterilisation I suspect. Unless of course its only applied to "somewhere and someone else".
China's one child policy was enforced with financial carrots and sticks not the rather more drastic measures you suggest. This page has a graph about halfway down showing the effects. The main issue of course is that the policy was introduced in the 80s and it takes about 50 years from then for the population to start going down again. On the bright side we may well run out of fossil fuels in relatively short order (next 100 or so years) which would certainly limit climate change. And if the planet is still habitable (some) humans will probably still be about, provided we haven't wiped ourselves out with an anti-microbial resistant plague spread worldwide through our efficient airport distribution centres and crowded cities, radiation poisoning from a trigger happy nuclear power or development of an AI that decides people that are able to work off switches are bad.
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scc
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Post by scc on Feb 28, 2019 2:19:39 GMT
I'm probably more bullish on the population "problem" sorting itself out since reading Factfulness. IIRC, the author reckons that the number of children in the world has already pretty much levelled off at around 2bn and that most of the predicted growth that is baked in is down to people living longer. Basically, it seems that regardless of what some religious leaders say as soon as people have access to contraception, education, better quality of life etc they generally want smaller families.
An ageing world population that is moving rapidly towards a western style level of consumption still presents its own challenges inc. climate change related ones. It's also interesting to see the growth of movements like minimalism, Marie Kondo, trends like lower interest in owning a car in the young etc. Perhaps consumption may even be self limiting once you have "enough". The transition phase could still be extremely difficult though - not least from an individual and collective existential point of view. If we no longer have to strive to get our basic needs fulfilled...what are we for? And how should we spend our time?
To bring it back to something like the topic of this forum. What does the world look like if everyone is pretty much FIRE?
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 28, 2019 7:02:06 GMT
Quite. Pretty much everywhere you get rising living standards1 you get reduced fertility/reproduction rates. There is of course a partial countering effect from long living/aging population.
There then of course also comes an issue of having enough people of working age/ability alive to keep the oldies in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. Which is where increased automation starts to come into play to take up some of the slack.
Nothing so simplistic as we are going to run out of space/food.
1EDIT: and/or higher levels of education, particularly female education and empowerment
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 28, 2019 12:24:18 GMT
Still, probably slightly more popular than a mass program of euthanasia and sterilisation I suspect. Unless of course its only applied to "somewhere and someone else".
...China's one child policy was enforced with financial carrots and sticks not the rather more drastic measures you suggest. I think that could be described at best as a rather rose tinted view of both how the policy was in pratice often enforced, the result of those "sticks", and some of the outcomes of the policy.
If nothing else, a gender imbalance of 120 boys to 100 girls tells you something about the level of sex selected abortion and probable infanticide that it induced (even if not all of that was down to single child policy).
Can't deny that arguably the rest of the world has benefited, avoiding the worst of population growths in a developing economy. Getting it to fertility rates comparable with developed/rich countries faster than it would otherwise have done. Just shame it was mostly not through choice.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 28, 2019 16:07:36 GMT
I'm seeing a flat earth thread coming. I doubt there'd be much point in that. Most people are in agreement that it is flat and it is why those in New Zealand always worry about falling off.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 1, 2019 2:45:47 GMT
Quite frankly I don’t see what everyone is getting their knickers in a twist about. If we survive the imminent eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano or the canaries tsunami then civilisation will be wiped out by a rogue asteroid long before climate change affects us. Earth’s volcanoes can in an instant release more greenhouse gasses than man has released since the industrial revolution. No matter. What a new ice age will hit, the moon will move so far from earth that the affect on oceans will swamp current cities. In 125 years 99.99999% of animals and humans alive today will be dead. Replaced by their offspring so nobody posting on here today ( me excluded) will be around at the end of the century to say “ I told you so “ . So rather than wiorry about your children being the repository of your genes 🧬 find a corner of Svalbard Global Seed Vault and stick some of your DNA in there for future insertion into cyborg bodies capable of withstanding adverse conditions and your genetic future is assured and it won’t want to borrow the car or get or cause teenage pregnancy and chlamydia pandemic  The worst thing possible for the planet 🌍 is having children that come with a massive carbon footprint throughout their lives. |
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Post by valerieb on Mar 2, 2019 8:36:24 GMT
The worst thing possible for the planet 🌍 is having children that come with a massive carbon footprint throughout their lives. Didn't you have a child or two; or was that just a myth?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 2, 2019 11:21:38 GMT
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 3, 2019 12:42:43 GMT
The worst thing possible for the planet 🌍 is having children that come with a massive carbon footprint throughout their lives. Didn't you have a child or two; or was that just a myth? No I only have 2 genetic children that I had no part in creating (Ie. My identical twin’s children) The only time you can pass on your genes without increasing co2 emissions is by cloning naturally or artificially rather than individual procreation.
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puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Apr 22, 2019 12:25:42 GMT
Yesterday while talking to my parents wishing them a Happy Easter, my Mum mentioned how hot it was, ranted about the London protesters and also went on about how just because it was hot, it didn't mean that climate change wasn't a huge lie. As I've said too many times to mention they mustn't mistake local weather conditions for climate. I had to just walk away from the phone once they started to reply. This is sadly a discussion they seem to inflict on me everything they visit me. Oh, they love Donald Trump and say how 'he right'. My parents are 80 years old. And they are coming to visit tomorrow... please wish me luck biting my tongue  This is the most astonishing thing I think I have every read on the internet, with the possible exception when I checked out David Icke's website several years back for some comic relief. Absolutely unbelievable. And amazingly depressing. |
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jj
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Post by jj on Apr 22, 2019 13:01:54 GMT
Trying to convince people that global warming is real is a hard task. Trying to convince people in a cold country that warming is a bad thing is an impossible task.  |
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 22, 2019 13:33:52 GMT
That was a nice graphic. But, my understanding is that this should be looked at in the context of hundreds of millions of years not just a few thousand. I'm skeptical but probably like most people (maybe everyone) don't have all the facts. I don't think that makes me or any other skeptical person a "denier" .
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 22, 2019 14:43:13 GMT
My parents are 80 years old. And they are coming to visit tomorrow... please wish me luck biting my tongue I guess they have honest (if misguided) views.
Contrast that with Emma Thompson, who flew from Los Angeles to heathrow (guarantee it wasn't in economy) to complain about climate change and encourage people to shut down the airport.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 22, 2019 15:32:16 GMT
I think people were wrong - from decades back - to phrase everything in terms of climate change. If they'd simply stated the obvious "vehicle exhaust is harming us, especially our kids, so we need to make things much cleaner. Same goes for factory chimneys, aircraft etc. etc.", I think they might have had more success. Pitching it at the level of saving polar bears rather than their kids was always going to be a long shot.
Sure, they will be doubters/deniers, but you could deal with them - e.g. if you disagree about vehicle exhaust being bad for you, sit in your car in the garage with the engine on and windows open and see if you feel better/worse.
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