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Post by figtree on Feb 28, 2019 14:10:42 GMT
I've been a happy Assetz Capital user for a while now I'm (mostly) happy - I find the platform intuitive and the loans are well documented. The secondary market has reasonable liquidity (although I'd like the ability to bid/offer above par value). The security is generally good quality, but the loan rates reflect that.
However, would like to move/add some money elsewhere for a couple of reasons:
1) A bit of platform diversity is good. 2) The rates on AC just seem to be getting lower and lower, I do think this reflects the quality of loans, but I'd like to take a little more risk with some of my portfolio.
So: where else would people recommend for self select loans with security behind them.
So far I've ruled out fundingsecure - I don't like the model of only knowing about the security, not the borrower. And I saw some pretty shocking stuff on here where it appears there was a loan where they didn't actually have access (or rights?) to the security.
Ablrate and ThinCats are high on my list - does anyone have any strong views on them (particularly if you've also used AC)? I think both suffer a little from a lack of lender diversification, compared to AC.
Are there are others you'd suggest I look at?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Feb 28, 2019 15:35:33 GMT
Recently I fully sold out of AC due to rates, 2FA imposition, move to "managed accounts" amongst other reasons. I'm still with Abl as I like their interaction with lenders, David Bradley-Ward - CEO is very approachable, they are still willing to openly interact with this forum in general, Yes they do have a limited choice of borrowers but that means they are selective & work closely/understand their chosen borrowers but admittedly limits investment diversity. However I would definitely recommend you give them whirl, as the SM is fairly liquid if not totally straightforward, looks like some new borrowers are in the pipeline so should be a good time to invest from a diversity perspective.
Lending Crowd are another decent platform going in the right direction, after a sticky period a couple of years ago, but they are more of a FC copy (at least the good bits!) but give a good choice of SME lending opportunities with plenty of diversity, often 200+ loans on SM if you get your daily timing right as it often quickly drops back to 50 or so. Both platforms have returned 9%+ p.a. over my 4 years or so investing.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Feb 28, 2019 15:47:22 GMT
If you're mostly happy with AC but want to spice up a bit of your portfolio, then ABL is a good place for a bit of your cash. Very well run, good platform once you get the hang of it, higher rates. Their huge problem is lack of diversity among borrowers, which is even worse than it appears at first glance because many of their borrowers are linked in non-obvious ways. There is a new borrower on now, and we are promised more. As long as you are very careful about not investing more than you should with one borrower, it's a good complement to AC IMHO.
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hantsowl
Member of DD Central
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Post by hantsowl on Feb 28, 2019 15:56:41 GMT
I've been a happy Assetz Capital user for a while now I'm (mostly) happy - I find the platform intuitive and the loans are well documented. The secondary market has reasonable liquidity (although I'd like the ability to bid/offer above par value). The security is generally good quality, but the loan rates reflect that. However, would like to move/add some money elsewhere for a couple of reasons: 1) A bit of platform diversity is good. 2) The rates on AC just seem to be getting lower and lower, I do think this reflects the quality of loans, but I'd like to take a little more risk with some of my portfolio. So: where else would people recommend for self select loans with security behind them. So far I've ruled out fundingsecure - I don't like the model of only knowing about the security, not the borrower. And I saw some pretty shocking stuff on here where it appears there was a loan where they didn't actually have access (or rights?) to the security. Ablrate and ThinCats are high on my list - does anyone have any strong views on them (particularly if you've also used AC)? I think both suffer a little from a lack of lender diversification, compared to AC. Are there are others you'd suggest I look at? Thanks in advance for your help. I rate ABL highly, but diversification is tricky due to a limited set of borrowers with multiple loans. There is a new borrower loan at the moment and we are told there are more on the way, so things could get even better in the next few months. Good SM with discount/premium facility. I don't use TC because I stick to secured loans. I got out of FS a while ago (too many defaults and I also hate the model). This year i have dabbled with Relendex. Loans seem ok, but don't frequently appear. Updates and response to questions could be a lot better. SM is pretty good and allows diversification for new investors. My preferred platform this year is Proplend. Loans seem at least as secure as AC, but rates are better and with most you can choose a tranche with a rate and LTV to suit your risk profile. NO DEFAULTS to date. Autoinvest available on new loans (tranche A only). VERY fluid PLE (SM) which allows diversification for new lenders.
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pom
Member of DD Central
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Post by pom on Feb 28, 2019 18:30:35 GMT
figtree As others have said, beware the linked borrowers on ABL- at the moment you'll only get sufficient diversification using it alongside other platforms, so be prepared to add a few others Also do be aware that they have a rather different view of the tax implications for using their platform compared to others - which depending on your tax circumstances you may be able to happily ignore. Or you might find yourself having to do a whole load of CGT calculations for little if no tax owed. So do make sure you have a read of www.ablrate.com/faq/what-is-the-tax-position/ before you get too involved
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Post by dan1 on Feb 28, 2019 18:55:11 GMT
figtree - if you're after well documented proposals and knowing the borrower ID then I'm another one who'd suggest you look at Ablrate (caveat being the linked borrowers as noted previously). If your minimum investment will stretch to £1k then take a look at Blend Network, a much newer and smaller platform but rates > 10% with decent documentation too. BridgeCrowd seem popular if your minimum can stretch to £5k.
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Post by figtree on Feb 28, 2019 19:59:22 GMT
figtree As others have said, beware the linked borrowers on ABL- at the moment you'll only get sufficient diversification using it alongside other platforms, so be prepared to add a few others Also do be aware that they have a rather different view of the tax implications for using their platform compared to others - which depending on your tax circumstances you may be able to happily ignore. Or you might find yourself having to do a whole load of CGT calculations for little if no tax owed. So do make sure you have a read of www.ablrate.com/faq/what-is-the-tax-position/ before you get too involved Bloomin ‘eck Thanks for highlighting that little beauty!
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Post by figtree on Feb 28, 2019 20:13:39 GMT
figtree As others have said, beware the linked borrowers on ABL- at the moment you'll only get sufficient diversification using it alongside other platforms, so be prepared to add a few others Also do be aware that they have a rather different view of the tax implications for using their platform compared to others - which depending on your tax circumstances you may be able to happily ignore. Or you might find yourself having to do a whole load of CGT calculations for little if no tax owed. So do make sure you have a read of www.ablrate.com/faq/what-is-the-tax-position/ before you get too involved Bloomin ‘eck Thanks for highlighting that little beauty! Ah but hang on, unless you make more than £11,600 from doing this (or you have other CGT liabilities), you don’t need to worry (nb I’m not an accountant, that’s not advice, it’s my reading of the rules and may be wrong)
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Post by df on Feb 28, 2019 21:23:20 GMT
figtree , you can also take a look at Moneything. Loan flow is slow, but it can be good to have MT included in your diversified portfolio.
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Post by df on Feb 28, 2019 21:54:05 GMT
Recently I fully sold out of AC due to rates, 2FA imposition, move to "managed accounts" amongst other reasons. I'm still with Abl as I like their interaction with lenders, David Bradley-Ward - CEO is very approachable, they are still willing to openly interact with this forum in general, Yes they do have a limited choice of borrowers but that means they are selective & work closely/understand their chosen borrowers but admittedly limits investment diversity. However I would definitely recommend you give them whirl, as the SM is fairly liquid if not totally straightforward, looks like some new borrowers are in the pipeline so should be a good time to invest from a diversity perspective.
Lending Crowd are another decent platform going in the right direction, after a sticky period a couple of years ago, but they are more of a FC copy (at least the good bits!) but give a good choice of SME lending opportunities with plenty of diversity, often 200+ loans on SM if you get your daily timing right as it often quickly drops back to 50 or so. Both platforms have returned 9%+ p.a. over my 4 years or so investing.
I just past my 2nd LC anniversary, worked well for me so far. 8.83% return, max exposure 0.3%, 360 loans with relatively little effort. Very different picture from the "original" - LC must have done something right?
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pom
Member of DD Central
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Post by pom on Feb 28, 2019 22:14:08 GMT
Bloomin ‘eck Thanks for highlighting that little beauty! Ah but hang on, unless you make more than £11,600 from doing this (or you have other CGT liabilities), you don’t need to worry (nb I’m not an accountant, that’s not advice, it’s my reading of the rules and may be wrong) Almost....you'll also have to do full reporting if you "sell" (including amortising/full repayments) more than 4x your allowance even if you don't make anywhere near enough to pay tax. And it's surprising how much churn you can have on your account.. And dare I say it if you're not using your CGT allowance, then perhaps you should be trying to...
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Post by Ace on Feb 28, 2019 22:55:44 GMT
Ah but hang on, unless you make more than £11,600 from doing this (or you have other CGT liabilities), you don’t need to worry (nb I’m not an accountant, that’s not advice, it’s my reading of the rules and may be wrong) Almost....you'll also have to do full reporting if you "sell" (including amortising/full repayments) more than 4x your allowance even if you don't make anywhere near enough to pay tax. And it's surprising how much churn you can have on your account.. And dare I say it if you're not using your CGT allowance, then perhaps you should be trying to... Worth saying that all of these tax issues can be completely ignored if you only invest via the ISA account.
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pom
Member of DD Central
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Post by pom on Mar 1, 2019 18:16:48 GMT
Almost....you'll also have to do full reporting if you "sell" (including amortising/full repayments) more than 4x your allowance even if you don't make anywhere near enough to pay tax. And it's surprising how much churn you can have on your account.. And dare I say it if you're not using your CGT allowance, then perhaps you should be trying to... Worth saying that all of these tax issues can be completely ignored if you only invest via the ISA account. True...but given the OP is only now looking to expand beyond 1 platform I'd have to say putting all your ISA cash into ABL, or a large proportion of, would be a baaaad idea. Don't get me wrong I've got a decent enough chunk in the ISA myself...but I personally would not want to risk too much ISA cash on the current diversification/risk available. Can't offset ISA losses after all.
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Post by figtree on Mar 1, 2019 21:26:31 GMT
Thanks all, I’ve gone with abl as my second platform for the moment, I’m keeping an eye on proplend too: I like the loans but feel a bit like the platform is being run on a shoestring: the need to send a message in advance of depositing cash doesn’t fill me with confidence.
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hantsowl
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Post by hantsowl on Mar 1, 2019 22:45:19 GMT
Thanks all, I’ve gone with abl as my second platform for the moment, I’m keeping an eye on proplend too: I like the loans but feel a bit like the platform is being run on a shoestring: the need to send a message in advance of depositing cash doesn’t fill me with confidence. A number of platforms do that as a way of speeding up the deposit process. My view is that PL is one of the better managed and responsive platforms and certainly not run on a shoestring.
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