upland
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Post by upland on Feb 12, 2020 7:40:41 GMT
He has done a lot of damage though.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Feb 12, 2020 8:44:59 GMT
He hasn't really caused any damage at all. Loans are being snapped up as soon as they are released as has always been the case due to the high demand and generally small size. There has been no disruption to the operations of the platform. He has caused financial damage to the platform in the form of extra legal costs incurred by Unbolted but has been ordered to pay these back. Its basically been a completely failed attempt to get out of paying his loans back.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 9:01:00 GMT
He hasn't really caused any damage at all. Loans are being snapped up as soon as they are released as has always been the case due to the high demand and generally small size. There has been no disruption to the operations of the platform. He has caused financial damage to the platform in the form of extra legal costs incurred by Unbolted but has been ordered to pay these back. Its basically been a completely failed attempt to get out of paying his loans back. He hasn't totally failed yet - appeals sometimes succeed. And the issue is that if the appeal succeeds he can sue each one of us individually for everything as we are jointly and severally responsible for each loan. As he says in the papers, he will threaten to make every lender bankrupt and have to sell their house. That's why if the appeal succeeds lenders will need to club together to represent our interests (aka class action). The above may not be likely, but it is still a distinct possibility. So I think damage is still being done unless and until the appeal fails.
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Feb 12, 2020 10:02:22 GMT
The same thing happened with Lendy. That totally failed. I don't think I will lose any sleep over this.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 12, 2020 10:06:47 GMT
The only connection I'd like would be between my fuse box and his testacles
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 10:15:28 GMT
The same thing happened with Lendy. That totally failed. I don't think I will lose any sleep over this. read the judgment - it isn't as clearcut as you'd like to think. Lenders and platform have different interests, and the borrower can legally only sue the other party to the contract, which is us lenders. UB is the facilitator of the loans and is rowing back from representing us, so there is a chance we will have to be represented separately, as the judge recognises. Reading between the lines, the UB lending contracts were potentially flawed and opened up this loophole which may not be present elsewhere. If his attempt succeeds, other borrowers may follow. And that is why UB lending doe have some additional risks at the moment. I am not taking on new loans until this is settled.
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Post by dan1 on Feb 12, 2020 10:33:32 GMT
If this were an open and shut case then Unbolted would have found a way to transfer the debt away from lenders via an Assignment of Debt because the risk to the third party would have been non-existent. I guess there are insurmountable hurdles to Open Access Finance Ltd taking on the debt but that doesn't preclude one of the founders/backers from taking it on in a personal capacity. I ask myself why this hasn't happened and my answer is because of the risk.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 10:41:08 GMT
are you saying his testicles may somehow short the system?
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Feb 12, 2020 11:38:57 GMT
Theres clearly a range of different opinions on this. We will find out soon enough, the hearing is 4 weeks away.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Feb 12, 2020 11:44:54 GMT
The same thing happened with Lendy. That totally failed. I don't think I will lose any sleep over this. read the judgment - it isn't as clearcut as you'd like to think. Lenders and platform have different interests, and the borrower can legally only sue the other party to the contract, which is us lenders. UB is the facilitator of the loans and is rowing back from representing us, so there is a chance we will have to be represented separately, as the judge recognises. Reading between the lines, the UB lending contracts were potentially flawed and opened up this loophole which may not be present elsewhere. If his attempt succeeds, other borrowers may follow. And that is why UB lending doe have some additional risks at the moment. I am not taking on new loans until this is settled. I was fairly relaxed about this, but you've really got me thinking (aka worrying) now. I'm wondering if I should have stopped lending too.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 11:53:51 GMT
read the judgment - it isn't as clearcut as you'd like to think. Lenders and platform have different interests, and the borrower can legally only sue the other party to the contract, which is us lenders. UB is the facilitator of the loans and is rowing back from representing us, so there is a chance we will have to be represented separately, as the judge recognises. Reading between the lines, the UB lending contracts were potentially flawed and opened up this loophole which may not be present elsewhere. If his attempt succeeds, other borrowers may follow. And that is why UB lending doe have some additional risks at the moment. I am not taking on new loans until this is settled. I was fairly relaxed about this, but you've really got me thinking (aka worrying) now. I'm wondering if I should have stopped lending too. Others have taken the opportunity to get larger bites of new loans! I'm just in a more cautious phase of P2P lending at the moment, minimising risks where possible and identifiable. Hence selling out of LW too, while others happy to stay put.
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Post by markaldrich on Feb 12, 2020 11:58:32 GMT
UB taking an assignment of the loan would not be effective protection however they could provide an indemnity to all borrowers. This would be a good sign to the market as well as confirming confidence in their case.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 12:04:03 GMT
UB taking an assignment of the loan would not be effective protection however they could provide an indemnity to all borrowers. This would be a good sign to the market as well as confirming confidence in their case. But not much incentive whilst all their loans are taken up despite this.
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Ukmikk
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Post by Ukmikk on Feb 12, 2020 12:08:38 GMT
I was fairly relaxed about this, but you've really got me thinking (aka worrying) now. I'm wondering if I should have stopped lending too. Others have taken the opportunity to get larger bites of new loans! I'm just in a more cautious phase of P2P lending at the moment, minimising risks where possible and identifiable. Hence selling out of LW too, while others happy to stay put. Yeah, I'm one of them! And I'm still in LW! It seems that danger lurks everywhere at the moment, hard to make the right calls. Luckily I made an early exit from FO.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 12, 2020 12:15:41 GMT
Others have taken the opportunity to get larger bites of new loans! I'm just in a more cautious phase of P2P lending at the moment, minimising risks where possible and identifiable. Hence selling out of LW too, while others happy to stay put. Yeah, I'm one of them! And I'm still in LW! It seems that danger lurks everywhere at the moment, hard to make the right calls. Luckily I made an early exit from FO.I'm stuck for a small amount in FO - tried to exit months ago but they aren't paying anyone. But did get out of Lendy, MT and FS in time and with decent profit, just some small change written off. Coll still my biggest default exposure by far, and was all out of property/development on that one, having just stayed for the bling (a mistake in retrospect). We learn and move on.
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