blender
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Post by blender on Jun 13, 2019 14:51:38 GMT
You wonder where they get the right to fulfil all borrowing requests within a couple of days while giving whatever cash is left over to the investors who wish to withdraw. Maybe they also deliberately keep a cash reserve in uninvested balances, how would we know? Investors are the second class customers here. If they had planned to run a 90 day access account (and the rest) that does not even return the cash due to their system failure, then they might have said so. If you don't have the cash willingly lent, then don't fund the loans. A case for general complaint here.
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Post by Mr Smith on Jun 13, 2019 15:40:12 GMT
If FC did collapse, what effect do people think it will have on the other P2P lenders ?
Me personally, I think it would cause some panic.
Saying that, if 1 or 2 of the other smaller ones went under it wouldn't do anyone trying to get their cash out any favours.
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Post by greggaton on Jun 13, 2019 16:00:24 GMT
Take my word, Greggers, you can lose a lot more in OEICs - a lot more! i remain of the view that if you keep invested in FC you are unlikely to lose money over the full (5 year cycle), which is after all why major institutional investors are investing. Can you earn more with other p2p platforms? Yes, even the AC access accounts are more competitive. You can lose a lot more but you can also gain a hell of a lot more. If you're lucky on FC you might get 5% p/a. But as things stand you won't be able to access your cash for months because of liquidity problems. Pick a decent equity fund (or even an index tracker) and you could get 10%+ in favourable economic conditions. Plus, if you need your cash back you can sell out in a few days (events like the Woodford freeze are notable for their rarity). As to a five-year cycle, if - as looks quite possible - the UK goes into recession in the next five years, my prediction is that (assuming FC stays afloat) there will be material losses for all investors, and none will be able to get out of their loans early. That distinct possible is simply not worth the paltry returns (and that's if you're fortunate) that Fetid Corpse currently offers.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Jun 13, 2019 16:11:20 GMT
If what you suggest occurs the market will be down 30% to 50%. You will lose nowhere near that in FC.
You are comparing apples with pears.
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jun 13, 2019 17:59:10 GMT
Update: I put my latest batch of loans up for sale on 16 April. Was notified this morning that they have sold. I make that 58 days. The punchline: I listed £875 worth of loans (all I could, out of a portfolio of around £2k). Only £36 sold! 4% of what I listed!! this is pathetic! my comforts!
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p2pete
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Post by p2pete on Jun 14, 2019 6:40:43 GMT
My sale from 16/04/2019 sold today 14/06/2019 (59 days). The requested amount was £158 and the amount sold was £32 (20%).
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Post by Mr Smith on Jun 14, 2019 6:56:40 GMT
My sale from 16/04/2019 sold today 14/06/2019 (59 days). The requested amount was £158 and the amount sold was £32 (20%). Is it impossible to get all your funds out now, at least in any sensible time scale ? By my ready reckon-er, if you sale 20% each time it'll take 2 years to get near to emptying the account. This is starting to stink to high heaven.
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p2pete
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Post by p2pete on Jun 14, 2019 7:13:58 GMT
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Post by Mr Smith on Jun 14, 2019 7:21:56 GMT
Blimey, hadn't read that one thanks. This caught my eye: " If benaj has been in the queue since Friday (without leaving it), then it's more like 4 or 5 days now. Eeek." 4 or 5 days....if only !!! It seems we have missed the boat. I wonder if Lendy collapsing spooked a few people and they want out. Hopefully it will all settle down and selling times will decrease. If not, we are in for a very long wait
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p2pete
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Post by p2pete on Jun 14, 2019 7:31:34 GMT
The collapse of other platforms and the apparent increase in defaults haven't helped, but the selling issues at FC are primarily by design eg:
1. Loans that go to Processing whilst for sale fall out of the sale queue and have to be resold again manually. 2. You can only submit ONE sell instruction at a time as opposed to most other platforms where you can individually sell your loan parts. 3. When buying, priority is given to new loans over secondary loans in an attempt to be fair to new joiners.
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Post by Mr Smith on Jun 14, 2019 7:48:58 GMT
The collapse of other platforms and the apparent increase in defaults haven't helped, but the selling issues at FC are primarily by design eg: 1. Loans that go to Processing whilst for sale fall out of the sale queue and have to be resold again manually. 2. You can only submit ONE sell instruction at a time as opposed to most other platforms where you can individually sell your loan parts. 3. When buying, priority is given to new loans over secondary loans in an attempt to be fair to new joiners. That's all fine and well and we accept that and it was all fine and dandy when selling times were less than 1 week. For selling times to stretch to 2 months only to sell small fractions of your loan book says, to me at least, something is going on. Many people must be selling up. What this means for FC and for us is anyone's guess. I started the share price thread as that might give an indication of what the city investors thing is coming next, although that doesn't help anyone access their cash. Does anyone here want to buy my loan book for 80 p in the £1 ?....thought not.
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Post by rweb on Jun 14, 2019 8:12:27 GMT
The collapse of other platforms and the apparent increase in defaults haven't helped, but the selling issues at FC are primarily by design eg: 1. Loans that go to Processing whilst for sale fall out of the sale queue and have to be resold again manually. 2. You can only submit ONE sell instruction at a time as opposed to most other platforms where you can individually sell your loan parts. 3. When buying, priority is given to new loans over secondary loans in an attempt to be fair to new joiners. That's all fine and well and we accept that and it was all fine and dandy when selling times were less than 1 week. For selling times to stretch to 2 months only to sell small fractions of your loan book says, to me at least, something is going on. Many people must be selling up. What this means for FC and for us is anyone's guess. I started the share price thread as that might give an indication of what the city investors thing is coming next, although that doesn't help anyone access their cash. Does anyone here want to buy my loan book for 80 p in the £1 ?....thought not.
The growth in selling time has so far been linear - that to me doesn't suggest that there has been a sudden rush of people selling up. If that were so I'd expect the growth in selling time to be more exponential than linear, as the loans for sale would stack up very quickly in that circumstance. Also, in that increase in those selling loan parts, you'd expect a handful of very large investors to decide to dump their loans and in a queue based system that would cause a sudden and lengthy backlog where you'd see more of a bell-curve once those larger sales were complete.
The other reason that selling time would be expected to increase is if there is a reduction in inflow of cash from investors, and therefore fewer loans being bought/sold in the secondary market. Again, if that were the case I wouldn't expect a perfectly linear increase in selling times (see the graph I posted in an earlier post in this thread).
This all leads me to believe that Funcing Circle have made an unannounced change to the way they allocate funds to the secondary market and it is a deliberate way of prioritising newly invested funds over allowing existing lenders to exit.
I think it is high time that FC are more open about this issue and what they plan to do about it, starting with points 1 and 2 that p2pete suggested above.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jun 14, 2019 8:15:48 GMT
The collapse of other platforms and the apparent increase in defaults haven't helped, but the selling issues at FC are primarily by design eg: 1. Loans that go to Processing whilst for sale fall out of the sale queue and have to be resold again manually. 2. You can only submit ONE sell instruction at a time as opposed to most other platforms where you can individually sell your loan parts. 3. When buying, priority is given to new loans over secondary loans in an attempt to be fair to new joiners. Not sure I agree with that. It is possible that this has been mentioned above, but if 95%+ was available for sale as each seller arrived at the front of the queue (only genuine payment delays removed) then the queue would be much longer, probably over 115 days (assuming about 50% sold in 58 days). How about their own institutional investment trust just stopped buying any new loans. In fact the votes to stop buying was over 99.99% of those cast. Combine that with increasing reports of defaults on this platform and the removal of the loan book (so can't verify one way or the other) will have caused many of those on this platform to exit - from about a year ago. And P2P in the press has gone from generally positive 6+ months ago to generally negative. I've no idea if it is a blip or the start of something bigger.
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Post by Mr Smith on Jun 14, 2019 8:24:16 GMT
That's all fine and well and we accept that and it was all fine and dandy when selling times were less than 1 week. For selling times to stretch to 2 months only to sell small fractions of your loan book says, to me at least, something is going on. Many people must be selling up. What this means for FC and for us is anyone's guess. I started the share price thread as that might give an indication of what the city investors thing is coming next, although that doesn't help anyone access their cash. Does anyone here want to buy my loan book for 80 p in the £1 ?....thought not.
The growth in selling time has so far been linear - that to me doesn't suggest that there has been a sudden rush of people selling up. If that were so I'd expect the growth in selling time to be more exponential than linear, as the loans for sale would stack up very quickly in that circumstance. Also, in that increase in those selling loan parts, you'd expect a handful of very large investors to decide to dump their loans and in a queue based system that would cause a sudden and lengthy backlog where you'd see more of a bell-curve once those larger sales were complete.
The other reason that selling time would be expected to increase is if there is a reduction in inflow of cash from investors, and therefore fewer loans being bought/sold in the secondary market. Again, if that were the case I wouldn't expect a perfectly linear increase in selling times (see the graph I posted in an earlier post in this thread).
This all leads me to believe that Funcing Circle have made an unannounced change to the way they allocate funds to the secondary market and it is a deliberate way of prioritising newly invested funds over allowing existing lenders to exit.
I think it is high time that FC are more open about this issue and what they plan to do about it, starting with points 1 and 2 that p2pete suggested above.
Has it ? Given some of the times reported it looks quite expotential to me !! Dec Jan March May June 1 3 7 30 60 Why would you man an unannounced change to the way they allocate fund ? Has anyone asked them that question ? You need to take this selling/default issue in the context of what is currently going on in the UK. Debt at all time highs, low wages, unsustainable cost of living, brexit, Political turmoil, Housing market grinding to a half, London house prices falling, higher US interest rates, QE stopped. The selling times might just be an inconvenience but the massive jump in defaults says to me something is afoot.
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Post by rweb on Jun 14, 2019 8:28:50 GMT
The growth in selling time has so far been linear - that to me doesn't suggest that there has been a sudden rush of people selling up. If that were so I'd expect the growth in selling time to be more exponential than linear, as the loans for sale would stack up very quickly in that circumstance. Also, in that increase in those selling loan parts, you'd expect a handful of very large investors to decide to dump their loans and in a queue based system that would cause a sudden and lengthy backlog where you'd see more of a bell-curve once those larger sales were complete.
The other reason that selling time would be expected to increase is if there is a reduction in inflow of cash from investors, and therefore fewer loans being bought/sold in the secondary market. Again, if that were the case I wouldn't expect a perfectly linear increase in selling times (see the graph I posted in an earlier post in this thread).
This all leads me to believe that Funcing Circle have made an unannounced change to the way they allocate funds to the secondary market and it is a deliberate way of prioritising newly invested funds over allowing existing lenders to exit.
I think it is high time that FC are more open about this issue and what they plan to do about it, starting with points 1 and 2 that p2pete suggested above.
Has it ? Given some of the times reported it looks quite expotential to me !! Dec Jan March May June 1 3 7 30 60 mr_Smith - see the graph in my earlier post which uses the data criston has kindly posted on post #1 in this thread:
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