blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 2, 2019 16:40:51 GMT
Additionally, Collateral followed by Lendy (Savings Stream) has rather spooked the horses. Ablrate's model of monthly fees gives it high resilience to a low supply of new loans. But that resilience to a low supply of new loans due to fee's will only last as long as the current loans if new Ones don't fill for what ever reason surely?They know there business model better then me but i do wonder is it better to have fees on a loan every Six weeks or say fee's on 10 loans a month(even at a lower rate they may earn more and me personally would rather invest in 10 loans carefully selected with assets in the Abl way earning say 8 - 10% or more if they think it warrants it then the current 1 loan which after DD i leave. Don't get me wrong i like Abl and want them to survive and i am not thinking of say the FC model where you lend to nearly any business or auto invest across many but i do think we are entering the next stage of P2p in general where lenders & platforms may need to compromise or as some platforms do rely on institutional money and to keep expecting good loans at 14% may be over (but i am more then happy to be proved wrong  ) Ablrate and FC are like chalk and cheese but setting aside volume I think that Ablrate has the more resilient model. I think that the stress on p2p platforms will come the ability of the platforms to cope with significant rises in non-repayment by borrowers. FC take a fee up front but then rely on a 1% charge. Their statistics predict certain default rates which can be expected from the loans made, based on history, and which can presumably resourced within the part of the 1% allowed for collections and recoveries. The problem is that I do not think that they have the available budget to manage an increase in non-repayments, and that the more defaults they have the easier it will be for borrowers to escape the consequences - because nothing is secured and it's all personal guarantees which require a lot of effort. Losses will rise. There is a sort of positive feedback. Ablrate, in principle, offer secured loans where there are assets which a borrower can lose. But more importantly every loan is properly curated throughout its life (which is generally longer than its term) and the taking of monthly fees on each loan, at 4% minimum, ensures that there is some income stream which will support and justify the high level of human supervision per loan. I am not saying that it always works! Will FC ever pay back the investment?
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,924 
Likes: 1,191
|
Post by macq on Jun 2, 2019 17:06:55 GMT
totally agree about their model and all you say about how the loans are sourced and carried through which is why i said i was not in favour of the FC etc type idea and that i have trust in ABL - but i still think there needs to be an uptick in either the type of loans offered or the supply chain.It may only be my memory but it seems of the last 4 or 5 loans 2 have been withdrawn and last time i looked the latest loan is at about 30% after 10 days or so and that's not how it used to be even when people were complaining it was the same borrowers the loans went the same day and bid limits were then requested
Hopefully it sorts its self out
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 2, 2019 21:47:08 GMT
Of course I have to agree with that. Origination has always been difficult on this platform. I hope that the land loan which was withdrawn will return soon, as ablrate has said. One problem seems to be that borrowers who are paying in total over 20%, tend to believe that they should not also put their own cash in a project.
|
|
|
|
Post by ablrate on Jun 3, 2019 10:59:58 GMT
Hi All - I will wade in here, if I may.
I get the speculation around platforms, and we are writing an article on it on the blog, but from our perspective we have planned for cycles like this, hence the changing of our business model some time ago. Inevitably some loans will get withdrawn when lenders are being cautious, which is why its important to have a stable income. Also, the model in this space has been 'grow quickly by spending money'. That works for some, not so much for others, because if you time it incorrectly you have lots of outflows and not many inflows.
We have stayed lean, even making a small profit last year, and have been able to grow our team slowly, in line with income. Our recent raise has allowed us to begin to scale, and we have a number of plans to do so, this will be cautious and considered but you will start to see a difference in origination of loans. All this is dependent on lenders backing loans, and we hope to continue to be a platform where lenders feel they get a good deal.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 7, 2019 9:25:46 GMT
To return to loan application 124. This seems to have had a sudden spurt of investment to take it to 44%, followed by an enthusiastic promotion by email today. To be honest I thought my spare cash was just resting in this one at 14%, but if it is going to make it to being a live loan, then fine.
|
|
boundah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 367
Likes: 430
|
Post by boundah on Jun 7, 2019 10:08:13 GMT
Back to an earlier point: why would I invest in 124 when 120 is going for a (slight) discount on the SM? I don't see a difference in security, and the rate is the same. Maybe ablrate could help? |
|
|
|
Post by ablrate on Jun 7, 2019 10:58:40 GMT
Back to an earlier point: why would I invest in 124 when 120 is going for a (slight) discount on the SM? I don't see a difference in security, and the rate is the same. Maybe ablrate could help? We explain this to businesses that are looking for multiple tranches, that there could be an issue when the same or similar security is available. The bottom line is that these things will occur when a proper market is available. That market is now, however, trading at an overall premium with a few hundred available at a discount.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Jun 7, 2019 12:35:14 GMT
Back to an earlier point: why would I invest in 124 when 120 is going for a (slight) discount on the SM? I don't see a difference in security, and the rate is the same. Maybe ablrate could help? We explain this to businesses that are looking for multiple tranches, that there could be an issue when the same or similar security is available. The bottom line is that these things will occur when a proper market is available. That market is now, however, trading at an overall premium with a few hundred available at a discount. Sorry ablrate, you've lost me. My tiny brain must be misunderstanding something, but, how can something be trading at a premium when there is availability at a discount?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Jun 7, 2019 13:45:49 GMT
It think it might mean that the average of the offers is over 100%. Suggesting that if you want to buy a large amount as one transaction, you would do better to bid on 124 rather than buy 120. We minnows can nibble away at a discount.
|
|
|
|
Post by westcountry on Jun 7, 2019 14:00:28 GMT
Back to an earlier point: why would I invest in 124 when 120 is going for a (slight) discount on the SM? I don't see a difference in security, and the rate is the same. Maybe ablrate could help? I've not invested in either loan, but from my evaluation I found loan 120 to have a LTV of 226% (£1.2m loan secured on assets valued over £530k) while I found loan 124 to have a LTV of 89% (£625k loan secured on assets valued over £700k). In both cases I disregarded debentures/corporate guarantees etc, as experience has taught me they're worthless when a company collapses :-( So this might explain why people are investing in loan 124 despite loan 120 being available at a discount. I hope it's helpful ;-)
|
|
p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
Posts: 738 
Likes: 821
|
Post by p2pfan on Nov 13, 2019 14:53:01 GMT
I was under the impression this would become a PLC in the autumn. However, their website investors' section still has a blank page stating: "The investor relations section is under construction until such time as ****** Industries plc becomes a public listed company."
Floating is no easy matter and delays are to be expected, but there is very little news. Are they having difficulties of any sort?
Their monthly payments are always made on time to AblRate lenders, which is reassuring.
|
|
TitoPuente
Member of DD Central
Posts: 623
Likes: 655
|
Post by TitoPuente on Dec 19, 2019 16:03:55 GMT
ablrate Do you have an update on the listing? Looking at the last summary from the borrower the listing seems overdue.
|
|
|
|
Post by ablrate on Dec 20, 2019 11:46:39 GMT
ablrate Do you have an update on the listing? Looking at the last summary from the borrower the listing seems overdue. We understand they are book building at the moment (i.e fielding commitments for the listing).
|
|
nw99
Posts: 340
Likes: 114
|
Post by nw99 on Dec 20, 2019 13:37:14 GMT
Great news thank you
|
|
TitoPuente
Member of DD Central
Posts: 623
Likes: 655
|
Post by TitoPuente on Dec 20, 2019 13:42:24 GMT
ablrate Do you have an update on the listing? Looking at the last summary from the borrower the listing seems overdue. We understand they are book building at the moment (i.e fielding commitments for the listing). Thank you for the update. Perhaps it's also time to have a one-pager company update? Or perhaps two or three slides from the pitch they are using in the road show?
|
|
)
