sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Jun 14, 2019 20:24:43 GMT
You're saying that an insurance company would underwrite that a development would actually be completed or that property prices generally wouldn't decrease in the intervening period? They are talking about Professional Indemnity insurance, so if the recovery resulted in a significant shortfall there would be recourse to claim against the valuer if Lendy felt the valuation was suspect. Not really anything to do with Lendy other than to make sure the PI is of sufficient level which for a major RICS valuer of the type they used is to be expected. Yes but the point I was addressing was that a successful claim has to prove that the valuation was wrong at the outset, not years later. This might work for a simple bridging loan but must be harder for a stalled part-completed development project. One of the major problems with valuations on DFLs was that they worked on the basis that the project would be finished when what lenders needed to know was what might be realised on a defaulted firesale.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 14, 2019 20:36:29 GMT
They are talking about Professional Indemnity insurance, so if the recovery resulted in a significant shortfall there would be recourse to claim against the valuer if Lendy felt the valuation was suspect. Not really anything to do with Lendy other than to make sure the PI is of sufficient level which for a major RICS valuer of the type they used is to be expected. Yes but the point I was addressing was that a successful claim has to prove that the valuation was wrong at the outset, not years later. This might work for a simple bridging loan but must be harder for a stalled part-completed development project. One of the major problems with valuations on DFLs was that they worked on the basis that the project would be finished when what lenders needed to know was what might be realised on a defaulted firesale. Which no valuer will ever provide as there are too many variables. In fact, I recall seeing somewhere a document that suggested RICS specifically prohibited valuers providing distressed sale valuations as they are pure speculation. One of the issues with P2P is that the risk warnings do not highlight that fundamental issue with development loans.
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Post by billy169 on Jun 14, 2019 21:16:26 GMT
Am I thick ? Are we investors or creditors.!?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 21:51:45 GMT
Lot of speculation out there so thought I'd put my understanding to the test, fire away if you think of know I have anything wrong. 1. As with all P2P companies, all loans are contained entities with no reliance on the existence of Lendy. 2. As with all P2P companies Lendy were required to ensure that sufficient funds were ring fenced such that a third party administrator could close out all such loans with no reliance on the existence of Lendy, as I understand it it was to ensure this requirement that Lendy moved when they did. 3. All Lendy loans have security and were based on a maximum outlay of 70% of the value of that security. 4. All Lendy valuations required that the valuer had sufficient insurance in place such that if the valuation AT THE TIME OF LOAN EXPIRY proved inaccurate, a claim could be sought against that insurance. This was part of Lendy's due diligence and a route they have exercised on some loans to date with success. With regards to individual loans, unless it transpires Lendy have operated outwith code then they are no more or less likely to return our capital now than under Lendy, in other words each loan stands on it's own merits. Security valuations, a major criticism on this forum against Lendy, being insured means that's an avenue the administrators can pursue if they think property was over valued, and even if those valuers were to go into admin, their insurance would still have to man up where there were legitimate claims. Does anyone know how Lendy funded the contingency fund, was it from their profits or geared to loans, I see the admins are saying it's not clear cut in which case it's not simply Lendy's money available to their own creditors, at least not for now? Finally, I think one of the big worries is if whether the FCA envisaged this percentage of troubled loans when setting the amount that needed to be ringfenced for this type of collapse, and if given the likely litigation to come, whether any shortfall falls to being paid via return on loans or Lendy assets. If the loan contracts are seen to be unfair, and indeed lendy's continually changing terms without notice the same, then there is a very real chance that we may all end up as unsecured creditors, particularly if the client account has been tainted with other transactions. Don't assume anything until the administrators give legal clarification in their report. Some investors may be creditors under the old terms, some may be beneficiaries under the pure P2P terms, some may be under both terms depending on the loans they have bought on the secondary market, when they joined, if they formally rejected terms or if they were never even made aware terms had been unfairly changed to diminish accountability bias in Lendy's favour. It's a legal mess the administrators are untangling. They don't just report to us, they are reporting for HMRC, secured creditors, lawyers, borrowers, employees, banks, regulators, authorities etc. Its extensive, precise and with no margin for error.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 14, 2019 21:52:52 GMT
Am I thick ? Are we investors or creditors.!? That's what the administrators are taking advice on. In theory, lenders on new term loans, and probably creditors on old. If you are on LAG FB group there is a comment on a post giving the nature of of the query.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 15, 2019 0:48:27 GMT
Am I thick ? Are we investors or creditors.!? That's what the administrators are taking advice on. In theory, lenders on new term loans, and probably creditors on old. If you are on LAG FB group there is a comment on a post giving the nature of of the query. One of those “wait and see” what the lawyers say conundrums. We will get every scenario presented here. Only one will prevail that is legally supported.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 15, 2019 7:51:25 GMT
They are talking about Professional Indemnity insurance, so if the recovery resulted in a significant shortfall there would be recourse to claim against the valuer if Lendy felt the valuation was suspect. Not really anything to do with Lendy other than to make sure the PI is of sufficient level which for a major RICS valuer of the type they used is to be expected. Yes but the point I was addressing was that a successful claim has to prove that the valuation was wrong at the outset, not years later. This might work for a simple bridging loan but must be harder for a stalled part-completed development project. One of the major problems with valuations on DFLs was that they worked on the basis that the project would be finished when what lenders needed to know was what might be realised on a defaulted firesale. So perhaps if this is well understood risk in the sector and it wasn't listed, then it can contribute to the notion for the many, of miss-selling.
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Post by meyerlansky on Jun 15, 2019 8:27:08 GMT
Tody RSM made lendywealth website legally dead. It is just disappeared.
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Post by zee on Jun 15, 2019 8:57:53 GMT
4. All Lendy valuations required that the valuer had sufficient insurance in place such that if the valuation AT THE TIME OF LOAN EXPIRY proved inaccurate, a claim could be sought against that insurance. This was part of Lendy's due diligence and a route they have exercised on some loans to date with success. You're saying that an insurance company would underwrite that a development would actually be completed or that property prices generally wouldn't decrease in the intervening period? I'm saying that any company providing a valuation of a security that was subsequently written into a loan agreement had to have that valuation insured, and that Lendy have already made claims against such insurances successfully, and that it was the valuers responsibility to factor in likely market changes during the loan period or a specified period beyond the loan. This came up when I challenged a Lendy loan which returned hundreds of thousands short of the valuation. Lendy's had taken possession and liquidated the security, once done they made a claim to the valuation company's insurer for the shortfall. I specifically asked about Brexit and it's detrimental effect upon prices and was told again, that it was the responsibility of the valuer to factor in any likely impact of foreseeable shifts in market value including Brexit. I was sighted two other loans which Lendy had made successful insurance claims upon and was told they expected to succeed on the loan I was questioning.
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Post by ydobon on Jun 15, 2019 8:59:03 GMT
Well that was a totally pointless non-update. It was not informative, but one shouldn't expect much more at this stage. I think the fact that administrators communicate frequently is positive alone. I actually prefer the levels of communication now that the company is in administration!
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Post by mot on Jun 15, 2019 9:07:43 GMT
Surely we wouldn’t be where we all are then would we ?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jun 15, 2019 9:13:06 GMT
So perhaps if this is well understood risk in the sector and it wasn't listed, then it can contribute to the notion for the many, of miss-selling. But who (with any money) might you make a claim for miss-selling to? For sure if you were advised by a financial adviser you might be able to make a claim there, but that won't be true for most people.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 15, 2019 9:46:48 GMT
So perhaps if this is well understood risk in the sector and it wasn't listed, then it can contribute to the notion for the many, of miss-selling. But who (with any money) might you make a claim for miss-selling to? For sure if you were advised by a financial adviser you might be able to make a claim there, but that won't be true for most people. it's a broad discussion on the LAG fb page. They've requested any points which would support that claim. It's not definite, just gathering thoughts. They are being advised, I understand.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 15, 2019 10:00:00 GMT
You're saying that an insurance company would underwrite that a development would actually be completed or that property prices generally wouldn't decrease in the intervening period? I'm saying that any company providing a valuation of a security that was subsequently written into a loan agreement had to have that valuation insured, and that Lendy have already made claims against such insurances successfully, and that it was the valuers responsibility to factor in likely market changes during the loan period or a specified period beyond the loan. This came up when I challenged a Lendy loan which returned hundreds of thousands short of the valuation. Lendy's had taken possession and liquidated the security, once done they made a claim to the valuation company's insurer for the shortfall. I specifically asked about Brexit and it's detrimental effect upon prices and was told again, that it was the responsibility of the valuer to factor in any likely impact of foreseeable shifts in market value including Brexit. I was sighted two other loans which Lendy had made successful insurance claims upon and was told they expected to succeed on the loan I was questioning. Re Brexit - I think it would be a pretty easy defence that no one could reasonably have foreseen how awful our politicians would have been over Brexit.
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Post by ericandy on Jun 15, 2019 12:19:36 GMT
You're saying that an insurance company would underwrite that a development would actually be completed or that property prices generally wouldn't decrease in the intervening period? I'm saying that any company providing a valuation of a security that was subsequently written into a loan agreement had to have that valuation insured, and that Lendy have already made claims against such insurances successfully, and that it was the valuers responsibility to factor in likely market changes during the loan period or a specified period beyond the loan. This came up when I challenged a Lendy loan which returned hundreds of thousands short of the valuation. Lendy's had taken possession and liquidated the security, once done they made a claim to the valuation company's insurer for the shortfall. I specifically asked about Brexit and it's detrimental effect upon prices and was told again, that it was the responsibility of the valuer to factor in any likely impact of foreseeable shifts in market value including Brexit. I was sighted two other loans which Lendy had made successful insurance claims upon and was told they expected to succeed on the loan I was questioning.
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