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Post by steve11 on Jul 16, 2019 22:11:29 GMT
Please can someone clarify if we, as Lenders, have to fill out and return the Proof of Debt form. Thanks in advance
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 16, 2019 23:10:19 GMT
Thanks to Star dust I think I've answered some of my own questions. With regards to our status, it seems clear that throughout the document 'investors' and 'creditors' are separate, so it appears we are 'investors' not creditors, unless we are 'model 2' investors, in which case WE MAY ALSO qualify as creditors. Anyone know how the 'model' investor categories relate to the various Lendy businesses? Either way, 3.1.4 allows for potential claims arising from a breach in company obligations/duties to investors, I don't see why such wouldn't equally apply our Loan by Loan arrangements. Clearly the Insolvency act legislation wasn't written with P2P in mind, under 4.0 RSM identify that their role aligns with option b (insolvency act 1986 P3 B1) - (b) achieving a better result for the Company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the Company were wound up (without first being in administration); As I said, it wasn't written with P2P in mind and so RSM's own comments beneath it appear to clarify our status as 'investors' - The Joint Administrators consider that objective (b) is achievable as the controlled wind down of the Company's loan book and retention of key staff and systems will achieve a significantly greater value for the assets for the benefit of Investors and creditors than would have been achieved in a 'shut down' liquidation scenario. Investors in model 1 loans ( DFL001/2, PBL027, 31, 56) are assumed to be creditors of Lendy as the loans were direct to Lendy and not P2P. All other loans are model 2 and investors are direct creditors of the individual borrowers. (Both status are still subject to legal advice)
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jul 16, 2019 23:19:23 GMT
Please can someone clarify if we, as Lenders, have to fill out and return the Proof of Debt form. Thanks in advance Not at this stage as far as I am concerned unless you want to vote on the Joint Administrators Proposals or to decide whether there should be a creditors committee formed at the creditors meeting called for the 31st July. Or should a creditors committee be formed you wish to be nominated to serve on it. To quote RSM's Investors Update notice:
If you do want to vote or stand for the CC your forms need to be returned (presumably by email) to RSM's London offices by 16:00 on the 30th July.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jul 16, 2019 23:39:39 GMT
Can some of us be part of it? I'm happy with even 1/10 of the £1000/h rate they charge.
I'm happy to quit my current job to do this as I have a large amount in it and I'd never be as expensive as them.
Although i got no experience
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jul 16, 2019 23:44:23 GMT
I'd want the entire RSM team to be replaced to more cost realistic solicitors.
I can't understand how on earth any job can charge £1k/h with an average at £500/h.
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Post by meyerlansky on Jul 17, 2019 0:02:52 GMT
Development Finance Loans (“DFL’s)”
“The anticipated recovery on the DFL’s vary loan by loan, ranging between 7p to 100p of the capital provided by Investors. Based on the current information it is estimated the overall average return to Investors of their capital invested will be c57p in the £ before costs.”
Does it mean all DFL investors will get 57% after their investments or will be checked investment by investment. So maybe get 100% or just7%?
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jul 17, 2019 6:11:02 GMT
Development Finance Loans (“DFL’s)” “The anticipated recovery on the DFL’s vary loan by loan, ranging between 7p to 100p of the capital provided by Investors. Based on the current information it is estimated the overall average return to Investors of their capital invested will be c57p in the £ before costs.” Does it mean all DFL investors will get 57% after their investments or will be checked investment by investment. So maybe get 100% or just7%? we will get back an amount related to which loans we are in and not a blanket %
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bg
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Post by bg on Jul 17, 2019 6:25:37 GMT
Can some of us be part of it? I'm happy with even 1/10 of the £1000/h rate they charge. I'm happy to quit my current job to do this as I have a large amount in it and I'd never be as expensive as them. Although i got no experience If the partners charge out rate is £625/h, who exactly is charging £1000/h?
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jul 17, 2019 6:42:19 GMT
Can some of us be part of it? I'm happy with even 1/10 of the £1000/h rate they charge. I'm happy to quit my current job to do this as I have a large amount in it and I'd never be as expensive as them. Although i got no experience If the partners charge out rate is £625/h, who exactly is charging £1000/h? Sorry I just re-used a number from someobe from the forum. So the partner rate is £625/h and average is £365/h. Still outrageously expensive and I'd be very happy to do their support staff job at £90-190/h which is more than any job I'd ever get.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 17, 2019 7:11:45 GMT
If the partners charge out rate is £625/h, who exactly is charging £1000/h? Sorry I just re-used a number from someobe from the forum. So the partner rate is £625/h and average is £365/h. Still outrageously expensive and I'd be very happy to do their support staff job at £90-190/h which is more than any job I'd ever get. You wouldn't get it. These are client charging rates, NOT staff salaries. Professional firms and consultancies typically charge clients at least 3 times the headline salary that their staff receive. The rest covers all of the other costs that a company incurs (offices, utilities, support services, back-office staff, NI contributions, pensions, corporation tax, etc etc) and whatever's left is company profit.
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Post by jay2 on Jul 17, 2019 7:13:43 GMT
If the partners charge out rate is £625/h, who exactly is charging £1000/h? Sorry I just re-used a number from someobe from the forum. So the partner rate is £625/h and average is £365/h. Still outrageously expensive and I'd be very happy to do their support staff job at £90-190/h which is more than any job I'd ever get. If my maths is right at this time of the morning, £1,025m plus VAT for a year's work is £5,565 per day of a standard 221 working day year! Oh... "Plus expenses" !!  I'll be tea boy for £100 a day... 
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 17, 2019 7:18:05 GMT
If the partners charge out rate is £625/h, who exactly is charging £1000/h? Sorry I just re-used a number from someobe from the forum. So the partner rate is £625/h and average is £365/h. Still outrageously expensive and I'd be very happy to do their support staff job at £90-190/h which is more than any job I'd ever get. It's a lot but it includes overheads, it's not someone's salary. We used to charge about three times salary to cover everything else (and profit). Edit: Crossed with SteveT. 
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jul 17, 2019 7:20:05 GMT
Sorry I just re-used a number from someobe from the forum. So the partner rate is £625/h and average is £365/h. Still outrageously expensive and I'd be very happy to do their support staff job at £90-190/h which is more than any job I'd ever get. You wouldn't get it. These are client charging rates, NOT staff salaries. Professional firms and consultancies typically charge clients at least 3 times the headline salary that their staff receive. The rest covers all of the other costs that a company incurs (offices, utilities, support services, back-office staff, NI contributions, pensions, corporation tax, etc etc) and whatever's left is company profit. I work in IT consultancy and we charge rate to client as well. It has to include all cost as well (office, utilities, national insurance etc etc) Let me tell you that it's no where close to their rate. A director level charge "just" £1500/day or £187/h.. which is their support rate. They are just milking out profit just because they can. There was a quote from warren buffet asking a fund manager why their fees were so high at 3%. And the answer was because he couldn't charge more!!! The answer is they'll just charge the maximum they can.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 17, 2019 7:25:42 GMT
You wouldn't get it. These are client charging rates, NOT staff salaries. Professional firms and consultancies typically charge clients at least 3 times the headline salary that their staff receive. The rest covers all of the other costs that a company incurs (offices, utilities, support services, back-office staff, NI contributions, pensions, corporation tax, etc etc) and whatever's left is company profit. I work in IT consultancy and we charge rate to client as well. It has to include all cost as well (office, utilities, national insurance etc etc) Let me tell you that it's no where close to their rate. A director level charge "just" £1500/day or £187/h.. which is their support rate. They are just milking out profit just because they can. There was a quote from warren buffet asking a fund manager why their fees were so high at 3%. And the answer was because he couldn't charge more!!! The answer is they'll just charge the maximum they can. So switch industry and re-train as an Chartered Accountant and then as an Administrator / Receiver, passing all the necessary professional exams of course. Companies charge the "market price" for the products & services they provide.
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Post by jay2 on Jul 17, 2019 7:30:54 GMT
I work in IT consultancy and we charge rate to client as well. It has to include all cost as well (office, utilities, national insurance etc etc) Let me tell you that it's no where close to their rate. A director level charge "just" £1500/day or £187/h.. which is their support rate. They are just milking out profit just because they can. There was a quote from warren buffet asking a fund manager why their fees were so high at 3%. And the answer was because he couldn't charge more!!! The answer is they'll just charge the maximum they can. So switch industry and re-train as an Chartered Accountant and then as an Administrator / Receiver, passing all the necessary professional exams of course. Companies charge the "market price" for the products & services they provide. Absolutely, but when they see people asking why they are calling unnecessary chargeable meetings hopefully they pick up on the message.
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