Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 27, 2019 21:06:46 GMT
I believe it is because the platform is not allowed to have interest in the loans. That's why there isn't any platform here providing buy back. With Mintos, it's simple. I only buy buy-back loans. I know if the borrower can't pay back the company has obligation to pay me back if it's more than 2 months late. It forces the various loan providers to be much more cautious about their loans, or even take themselves loans/bonds to be able to service bad loans! Give me such a better peace of mind! At Mintos, the buyback is from the loan provider, not the platform. So you're basically lending to the loan provider rather than the borrower - not sure it's (much?) less risky, although it does help with DD as there are fewer firms to research. Are you sure loan buybacks aren't allowed in the UK? I appreciate the platform wouldn't be able to, but I'm not aware of anything stopping a platform hosting a loan provider which did. Welendus provision fund buys loans at risk of default.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on May 27, 2019 21:16:17 GMT
At Mintos, the buyback is from the loan provider, not the platform. So you're basically lending to the loan provider rather than the borrower - not sure it's (much?) less risky, although it does help with DD as there are fewer firms to research. Are you sure loan buybacks aren't allowed in the UK? I appreciate the platform wouldn't be able to, but I'm not aware of anything stopping a platform hosting a loan provider which did. Welendus provision fund buys loans at risk of default. That's not comparable. In one case you have both skin in the game and company liability to buyback the loan, and on the other side just a small % of provision fund. One of the previous Mintos lender, which some may have heard of, couldn't service the buyback due to too many bad loans and bankrupted. The company being bankrupt, the lender still couldn't get their money back (some of my loans with Eurocents are still in default after 2 years), but it had limited impact due to diversification provided by the platform (there are more than 30 different loan providers in Mintos)
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
Posts: 2,011
Likes: 1,013
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Post by Godanubis on May 27, 2019 22:16:00 GMT
Welendus provision fund buys loans at risk of default. That's not comparable. In one case you have both skin in the game and company liability to buyback the loan, and on the other side just a small % of provision fund. One of the previous Mintos lender, which some may have heard of, couldn't service the buyback due to too many bad loans and bankrupted. The company being bankrupt, the lender still couldn't get their money back (some of my loans with Eurocents are still in default after 2 years), but it had limited impact due to diversification provided by the platform (there are more than 30 different loan providers in Mintos) Mentos not allowed New UK investors. Welendus max £500 loan which you are unlikely to get a large chunk so risk tiny. Provision fund approx 100% of current loans.
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Post by gravitykillz on May 28, 2019 5:22:33 GMT
I am currently invested in
1.lending works
2. Lendinvest
3.crowd property
4.loanpad
5.wisealpha
6.growth street
No issues so far. Seem to be going good.
Sorry kuflink as well. Totally forgot about it. Mainly due to the bonus. I am thinking about going for British pearl as well
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Post by gravitykillz on May 28, 2019 5:24:22 GMT
But if your looking for high rates with a pf then welendus. I am not invested tho because I am paranoid about it.
But feedback is reasonable so far.
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Post by lotus_eater on May 29, 2019 14:35:42 GMT
I'm in 13 GBP lenders and 5 Euro lenders. No major issues (yet). Although a couple had more loans overdue than I liked, they seem to have got it in check now. You can see who they are here where I publish returns. |
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Post by Harland Kearney on May 29, 2019 15:40:10 GMT
Assetz Capital are the only company I currently invest in. To think at one point I had 12k in Lendy, so lucky to got it all out only £70 in there at the moment.
I am confident in AC because of there accounts standings, communication, investor interaction (emails, votes) and presence on this forum. They also have alot of experience compared to some of the other start ups here as is expected.
If COL and now Lendy tell us anything, the big and the small platforms can fall in the same fashion as eachother. Fast and with no time to exit (or inability due to liquidity/FCA) do your own research don't follow the herd on a whim. Pick your horses wisely and don't dump all your assets into one place and monitor it. Peer to Peer is now in my opinionmore risky than stocks and shares (global funds and index tracks type setups at least, Fundsmith, Lindsell ect) which is making me think twice on everything. But I can't beat some of the nice black box account rates (the 90DAA being my star) anywhere else here in UK. Other than on junk bonds hunting (again yeh pretty much sour too/risky as hell).
I used Zopa at one point, but returns were not worth the inherent peer to peer risk (better of with bank rates, special offer hunting at that point...) Not sure how they are now.
I used to actively invest on FS with a small sum, down to £700 in suspended and defaulted loans. However I have confidence in returning some of those funds via recovery and sales.
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Post by gravitykillz on May 29, 2019 16:13:42 GMT
Bondmason is now winding down due to concerns about the future of the property sector.
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bg
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Post by bg on May 29, 2019 17:06:02 GMT
I'm in 13 GBP lenders and 5 Euro lenders. No major issues (yet). Although a couple had more loans overdue than I liked, they seem to have got it in check now. You can see who they are here where I publish returns. The thing with this is some of these platforms you could have trouble brewing, just you may not be aware of it yet. Lendy always boasted that no loan had ever made a loss and as far as I'm aware they never declared any losses but the majority of their loan book was in deep trouble when they went into administration the other day. Lots of lenders will be sitting on healthy XIRR's but are likely to take a big hit I don't invest in all your platforms buy take FC as an example. The figures you have will not be your real returns. You may have many loans that have issues but are not defaulted yet. A good way to see the state of the loans you hold is to click 'sell' and it will tell you how much of your book is eligible for sale. The rest of your book has some sort of issue and I would factor in a haircut of that and adjust your returns accordingly (I would estimate 30-40% of unsellable loans will be lost on average). There are numerous threads on the FC board about this and is the reason investors are (trying to) selling up and leaving in droves.
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Post by lotus_eater on May 29, 2019 17:31:58 GMT
I'm in 13 GBP lenders and 5 Euro lenders. No major issues (yet). Although a couple had more loans overdue than I liked, they seem to have got it in check now. You can see who they are here where I publish returns. The thing with this is some of these platforms you could have trouble brewing, just you may not be aware of it yet. Lendy always boasted that no loan had ever made a loss and as far as I'm aware they never declared any losses but the majority of their loan book was in deep trouble when they went into administration the other day. Lots of lenders will be sitting on healthy XIRR's but are likely to take a big hit I don't invest in all your platforms buy take FC as an example. The figures you have will not be your real returns. You may have many loans that have issues but are not defaulted yet. A good way to see the state of the loans you hold is to click 'sell' and it will tell you how much of your book is eligible for sale. The rest of your book has some sort of issue and I would factor in a haircut of that and adjust your returns accordingly (I would estimate 30-40% of unsellable loans will be lost on average). There are numerous threads on the FC board about this and is the reason investors are (trying to) selling up and leaving in droves. Yes, thanks for the info. I had actually been lending with a few of these platforms for between 2 & 5 years before I started the website and reset everything (I still have a couple of other accounts that I don't put on the website too as I wanted to start everything at the same time so over time we can track and publish how each did). I expect FC XIRR to be lower in the long run for sure, they had some bad originating it seems. If you look at my monthly updates you'll note that I actually publish screenshots of all of the late loans, so listing loans is not a problem. I'm about 7% in unsalable loans right now. Hopefully some of that will get recovered, but only time will tell. IMHO Lendy was a little different to some of these platforms. I looked at them almost 2 years ago and it was kind of obvious when looking at their numbers, feedback and frankly some of their team members. There wasn't a barge pole big enough for me to touch them with at the time. I'll bet there are a few people on here that saw this coming from a distance? I'm sure other platforms will go broke as we move forward. A small downshift in the economy could cause some real problems. Another 2008/9 or worse could make things really interesting. That's why I put no more than 5% of my total investable assets in to P2P.
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bg
Member of DD Central
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Post by bg on May 29, 2019 18:02:28 GMT
I expect FC XIRR to be lower in the long run for sure, they had some bad originating it seems. If you look at my monthly updates you'll note that I actually publish screenshots of all of the late loans, so listing loans is not a problem. I'm about 7% in unsalable loans right now. Hopefully some of that will get recovered, but only time will tell. 7% unsalable I would estimate 2-3% loss of total capital. I'm not sure how it compares to some of your other platforms but Lendy was the darling of this forum and probably one of the most popular platform for quite a long period (look at the platform of the year awards). There were very few people making any negative comments and those that did were slammed down pretty quickly by the mob (same for Collateral and MT) Yes I agree, I have about 25% of my investable assets in P2P but spend a lot of time monitoring and managing it (it helps that it's in effect my full time job). When I first started out in P2P I opened accounts with lots of platforms and spread the money around - although I managed to get out of most of these platforms pretty much unscathed (I had a large holding in Lendy until I got concerned 18 months or so ago), with hindsight I think doing this was a mistake. Even though it may give a sense of diversification, diluting platform risk, I would rather concentrate on 2-3 larger platforms (as I do now) that I am more comfortable with. Also I find having 10+ platforms is too much effort to monitor/administer effectively and you may fail to see any problems that are creeping up (a flooded SM is always a good early warning sign). Hopefully given your comments on Lendy you have done detailed DD on all your platforms and are comfortable with each of them (I have however ditched my holdings in FC, ABL, Z and RS). Good luck with your investing and blog.
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Post by Ace on May 29, 2019 20:18:38 GMT
I expect FC XIRR to be lower in the long run for sure, they had some bad originating it seems. If you look at my monthly updates you'll note that I actually publish screenshots of all of the late loans, so listing loans is not a problem. I'm about 7% in unsalable loans right now. Hopefully some of that will get recovered, but only time will tell. 7% unsalable I would estimate 2-3% loss of total capital. I'm not sure how it compares to some of your other platforms but Lendy was the darling of this forum and probably one of the most popular platform for quite a long period (look at the platform of the year awards). There were very few people making any negative comments and those that did were slammed down pretty quickly by the mob (same for Collateral and MT) Yes I agree, I have about 25% of my investable assets in P2P but spend a lot of time monitoring and managing it (it helps that it's in effect my full time job). When I first started out in P2P I opened accounts with lots of platforms and spread the money around - although I managed to get out of most of these platforms pretty much unscathed (I had a large holding in Lendy until I got concerned 18 months or so ago), with hindsight I think doing this was a mistake. Even though it may give a sense of diversification, diluting platform risk, I would rather concentrate on 2-3 larger platforms (as I do now) that I am more comfortable with. Also I find having 10+ platforms is too much effort to monitor/administer effectively and you may fail to see any problems that are creeping up (a flooded SM is always a good early warning sign). Hopefully given your comments on Lendy you have done detailed DD on all your platforms and are comfortable with each of them (I have however ditched my holdings in FC, ABL, Z and RS). Good luck with your investing and blog. An interesting post that I almost completely agree with. Like you I consider my p2p activities virtually a full-time job. Also like you, I'm ditching FC, Z and RS, and was in the process of ditching Lendy. Unfortunately I'm a bit behind the curve when compared to yourself, which is why I'm a little concerned that I may have missed something regarding ABL. Having tried 26 platforms, to various degrees, I consider ABL to me my favourite and most trusted. So much so that I'm constantly tempted to break my self-imposed limits there. I'd be interested in any info that you would care to share on why you decided to ditch them.
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Post by lotus_eater on May 29, 2019 20:19:26 GMT
I expect FC XIRR to be lower in the long run for sure, they had some bad originating it seems. If you look at my monthly updates you'll note that I actually publish screenshots of all of the late loans, so listing loans is not a problem. I'm about 7% in unsalable loans right now. Hopefully some of that will get recovered, but only time will tell. 7% unsalable I would estimate 2-3% loss of total capital. - Right, we're on the same page with that one. 2-3% is kind of the expected default rate for FC I believe.I'm not sure how it compares to some of your other platforms but Lendy was the darling of this forum and probably one of the most popular platform for quite a long period (look at the platform of the year awards). There were very few people making any negative comments and those that did were slammed down pretty quickly by the mob (same for Collateral and MT) - However further down this thread you say "I had a large holding in Lendy until I got concerned 18 months or so ago" so obviously something got you concerned? Fair to say? I saw it and didn't invest just a little bit earlier than you pulled out. Either way, neither of us lost money which is the main point I think?
Yes I agree, I have about 25% of my investable assets in P2P but spend a lot of time monitoring and managing it (it helps that it's in effect my full time job). When I first started out in P2P I opened accounts with lots of platforms and spread the money around - although I managed to get out of most of these platforms pretty much unscathed (I had a large holding in Lendy until I got concerned 18 months or so ago), with hindsight I think doing this was a mistake. Even though it may give a sense of diversification, diluting platform risk, I would rather concentrate on 2-3 larger platforms (as I do now) that I am more comfortable with. Also I find having 10+ platforms is too much effort to monitor/administer effectively and you may fail to see any problems that are creeping up (a flooded SM is always a good early warning sign). - I respectfully disagree on a couple of these points. I still believe that diversification is very important. If all of my money is in 2 or 3 larger platforms, it's just a larger chunk of cash that would go bad if that should happen. Just because they're big (FC for example), doesn't mean they can't run in to bigger problems. I prefer to have it in 15 or 20 lenders so if one goes bad, it's a smaller percentage of the total portfolio. Just my 2c. We can agree to disagree :-)- I'm retired too. I manage about 18 lenders now and I'm looking for more. I still only spend maybe 3 to 5 days per month on it. Maybe I don't do enough DD, however in the 5 or so years I have been lending, I haven't been hit too hard yet. Now I just jinxed myself didn't I? :-)Hopefully given your comments on Lendy you have done detailed DD on all your platforms and are comfortable with each of them (I have however ditched my holdings in FC, ABL, Z and RS). Good luck with your investing and blog. - I've done the best I can do. The Euro lenders are very interesting to me right now. I'm sure I'll get hit at some point, but because I diversify between several lenders, hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. We'll see, time will tell.- I wish you the best of luck too. Nice chatting!
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 29, 2019 20:36:23 GMT
Still nothing beats actual property owning and renting with BTL mortgage investing in cheap property areas where property is cheap and rents are about 10%-20% net . Get rent and legal guaranteed and you can buy 10 for price of cheaper London flat and returns are guaranteed if you spend your money on your family split the ownership and split the tax bill and CGT when property eventually sold.
Even better start a company.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on May 29, 2019 20:48:06 GMT
Still nothing beats actual property owning and renting with BTL mortgage investing in cheap property areas where property is cheap and rents are about 10%-20% net . Get rent and legal guaranteed and you can buy 10 for price of cheaper London flat and returns are guaranteed if you spend your money on your family split the ownership and split the tax bill and CGT when property eventually sold. Even better start a company. Both of these are risk and time. For property you need the right spot, the right price, the right tenant. It's also a lot of time. Same for business. If it was easy everybody would be doing it
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