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Post by supernumerary on Aug 18, 2020 15:06:54 GMT
Along with a 184 000 for third party cost...out of a 640 000 loan...seriously... patright, I didn't want to put the actual figures up, ONLY percentages...  That figure for PBL95, that you have quoted is the GROSS REALISATION figure, not actual loan amount... ...that amount, that you have typed out, represents just 10.446% of the actual loan. ONLY 10.446% of the loan has been realised, BUT the lenders only get 6.8% of their capital back... ...that is according to the Lendy website. Cry me a river... 
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rocky1
Member of DD Central
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Post by rocky1 on Aug 18, 2020 17:33:18 GMT
lendy contractual entitlement 1/2 million on just these few loans.what does entitlement consist of LB certainly sorted these T&Cs out the way things are going he will be walking away with another few mill.lenders and borrowers screwed left right and centre.headline lendy makes millions out of going into administration.
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Post by patright on Aug 20, 2020 17:14:10 GMT
Along with a 184 000 for third party cost...out of a 640 000 loan...seriously... patright, I didn't want to put the actual figures up, ONLY percentages... That figure for PBL95, that you have quoted is the GROSS REALISATION figure, not actual loan amount... ...that amount, that you have typed out, represents just 10.446% of the actual loan. ONLY 10.446% of the loan has been realised, BUT the lenders only get 6.8% of their capital back... ...that is according to the Lendy website. Cry me a river... you did not want to put it but personally I don't mind putting it.. if percentage stay the same for the last 90%...it's a very very huge scam for investors
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Post by p2psws on Aug 21, 2020 20:46:59 GMT
lendy contractual entitlement 1/2 million on just these few loans.what does entitlement consist of LB certainly sorted these T&Cs out the way things are going he will be walking away with another few mill.lenders and borrowers screwed left right and centre.headline lendy makes millions out of going into administration. I dont get it. I didnt agree to LB's concocted T&C's. The whole 'by continuing to use our website you agree to our T&Cs' just doesnt wash. I didnt 'continue to use' their sham website. All I did was check in every now and then to see how my zombie loans were progressing. As it turns out, 100% of them werent progressing at all... unless you were LB, in which case they were progressing very nicely indeed thankyou very much.  !
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 21, 2020 21:26:39 GMT
lendy contractual entitlement 1/2 million on just these few loans.what does entitlement consist of LB certainly sorted these T&Cs out the way things are going he will be walking away with another few mill.lenders and borrowers screwed left right and centre.headline lendy makes millions out of going into administration. I dont get it. I didnt agree to LB's concocted T&C's. The whole 'by continuing to use our website you agree to our T&Cs' just doesnt wash. I didnt 'continue to use' their sham website. All I did was check in every now and then to see how my zombie loans were progressing. As it turns out, 100% of them werent progressing at all... unless you were LB, in which case they were progressing very nicely indeed thankyou very much. ! For the record the new t&cs arent being applied. What is being applied is the waterfall as outlined in the administrators report which is based on the security charges and the loan contracts. If the new t&cs were being applied, lenders would generally get even less as the bulk of the recovery would go to Lendy to cover fees , lenders possibly getting some interest but rarely capital. Currently lenders & Lendy are ranked equally and receive a pro-rate pay out based on the ratio of the accrued sums due to each. The issue is the default interest which hugely inflates Lendy's share and, as with all Lendy fees was not disclosed to lenders.
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Post by p2psws on Aug 22, 2020 7:16:45 GMT
I dont get it. I didnt agree to LB's concocted T&C's. The whole 'by continuing to use our website you agree to our T&Cs' just doesnt wash. I didnt 'continue to use' their sham website. All I did was check in every now and then to see how my zombie loans were progressing. As it turns out, 100% of them werent progressing at all... unless you were LB, in which case they were progressing very nicely indeed thankyou very much. ! ...... The issue is the default interest which hugely inflates Lendy's share and, as with all Lendy fees was not disclosed to lenders.It simply beggars belief that this is even contemplated to allow to happen! Im hoping common sense and moral decency will prevail and the administrators wont allow the waterfall. Like everyone else on this forum Im sure, I would never have put a penny into nearly every one of Lendy's 'loans' had they been transparent with all the relevant and pertinent details.
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Post by queenvictoria on Aug 22, 2020 8:04:02 GMT
...... The issue is the default interest which hugely inflates Lendy's share and, as with all Lendy fees was not disclosed to lenders.It simply beggars belief that this is even contemplated to allow to happen! Im hoping common sense and moral decency will prevail and the administrators wont allow the waterfall. Like everyone else on this forum Im sure, I would never have put a penny into nearly every one of Lendy's 'loans' had they been transparent with all the relevant and pertinent details. Surely the administrators are not in a position to voluntarily act outside the Lendy T&Cs (ie not allow the waterfall) however unfair it seems to us, the lenders. Would they not be failing in their duty to the Lendy shareholders?
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Post by buryfc on Aug 23, 2020 10:19:13 GMT
It’s not a matter of failing their duty to shareholders, it’s absolutely about failing their duty to creditors. When Lendy went into administration it owed money to creditors (including the model one loans) - all the money being collected in firstly goes to pay RSM’s fees then what ever is left if distributed to the creditors. IF there is anything left thereafter, that is then distributed back to shareholders. Given the scale of the model one loan defaults it’s highly unlikely (given the extremely low realisations of our loans) any money will be left for shareholders.
The irony of all this is the more we press RSM, like challenging the waterfall (that the FCA approved by the way which is likely to RSMs second defence, right behind their main defence in that we all openly agreed to the terms and it’s not just a case of one or two poor innocent unsophisticated investors...it’s literally 20,000+ people all were happy with the terms and conditions when we pumped in our money to chase 10, 12% returns.....the more RSM have to burn up fees, and their fellow lawyers etc and so their party continues.
They will have quietly been celebrating when the action was taken to challenge the water fall as it enabled them to justify extending the administration and gave them a very genuine reason to bill even more fees to deal with the action.
The administrators at the lender companies are playing the same game as well....burn up as much fees from the funds from selling the assets (which they have no real compulsion to get maximum value - as long as their sales agent advises them the deal is an acceptable one (and they have insurance to cover theirs and the IP’s back) in reality the IPs want the matter to drag out so they get more fees - the sales agents (surveyors) get a % of the sale price but also virtually as much in other fees.
This is all before our money gets to RSM and they burn up as much as they can.
Then they apply the waterfall and sit on a vast cash pile that they sit back trying to dream up reasons to burn it up such as all the AML / KYC fiasco.
It is quite literally legalised robbery at our expense and I fear that because the FCA have approved the terms and signed off Lendy’s authorisation (given that their mandate is “treating customers fairly”) we are facing an uphill battle that at every stage eats into our capital.
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quidco
Member of DD Central
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Post by quidco on Aug 23, 2020 18:55:44 GMT
The irony of all this is the more we press RSM, like challenging the waterfall (that the FCA approved by the way which is likely to RSMs second defence, right behind their main defence in that we all openly agreed to the terms and it’s not just a case of one or two poor innocent unsophisticated investors...it’s literally 20,000+ people all were happy with the terms and conditions when we pumped in our money to chase 10, 12% returns.....the more RSM have to burn up fees, and their fellow lawyers etc and so their party continues. Lendy changed the T&Cs in their favour a number of times especially just before they went into adminstration. Lenders didn't agree to these changes and were not aware of them. The FCA didn't approve the waterfall.
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Post by buryfc on Aug 23, 2020 20:01:28 GMT
You might well be right on the changes in the terms and conditions but if you speak to RSM they will confirm that the FCA sign off EVERY distribution back to investors and therefore approve the waterfall. Part of FCA regulation requires you to inform the FCA of any changes in the terms of your business and they will have seen every change that Lendy made.
i challenged Lendy in January 2019 on why distributions were delayed despite the asset being sold and both Liam Brooke and Alan Darling (who handled their recoveries) both confirmed that they were waiting sign off from the FCA - they had to get approval for any asset sold.
if you remember they were on the FCA watch list and every move had to be approved by the FCA.
i seem to remember one of the papers published the sanctions Lendy were under.
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Post by billy169 on Aug 23, 2020 20:31:10 GMT
And i thought the FCA were just incompetent..it seems thier involvement if far more worrying...we aren't just fighting lendy..we are up against the system.
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iRobot
Member of DD Central
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Post by iRobot on Aug 23, 2020 20:44:56 GMT
You might well be right on the changes in the terms and conditions but if you speak to RSM they will confirm that the FCA sign off EVERY distribution back to investors and therefore approve the waterfall. Part of FCA regulation requires you to inform the FCA of any changes in the terms of your business and they will have seen every change that Lendy made. i challenged Lendy in January 2019 on why distributions were delayed despite the asset being sold and both Liam Brooke and Alan Darling (who handled their recoveries) both confirmed that they were waiting sign off from the FCA - they had to get approval for any asset sold. if you remember they were on the FCA watch list and every move had to be approved by the FCA. i seem to remember one of the papers published the sanctions Lendy were under. (Sunday night Cynicism Alert!!!) This: As you go on to mention, the FCA put Lendy on (financial) lockdown - possibly over concerns for its' level of capitalisation. So, when RSM get 'approval' from the FCA to make a distribution, does the FCA simply ask "How much will that leave in the Lendy coffers?", to which RSM respond "Lots!" - without actually telling the FCA it is only 'lots' because of the usurious Loan Terms that deeply favours Lendy at the expense of lenders. This: The restrictions are still listed on the FCA register entry for Lendy including:
16 Apr 2019
The firm is the subject of an asset restriction
The Authority has decided to impose with immediate effect a requirement on the Firm, under section 55L of the Act, that it:
a) must not in any way dispose of, deal with or diminish the value of any of its assets; and
b) must not in any way release client money without in either case the prior written consent of the Authority
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Post by buryfc on Aug 23, 2020 21:45:56 GMT
I’m afraid the FCA know exactly how much we receive from the waterfall - as mentioned earlier (and still to this day sanctioned by the FCA) Lendy cannot dispose of any asset or make distributions of client money without the written authorization of the FCA.
They know everything that is going on I’m afraid and physically sign it off.
i respect the endeavors of the action group to try to challenge the waterfall but when has a lawyer every said don’t bother giving me your money...
The FCA approved the waterfall terms originally and each time we are repaid.
The FCA sign off every asset sale.
The FCA sign off every distribution back to lenders.
The FCA will not go back on their approval - can you imagine trying to unravel everything now the funds have been distributed and spent?
The terms were approved by the FCA on a fledgling industry that was developing faster than they could regulate it. I’m sure when the FCA signed off the term, it was thought that the asset would sell for more than the outstanding debt so the waterfall would not bite into our capital value. They will argue it’s not their fault Lendy’s lack of due diligence and poor valuations are causing huge losses.
lets be honest WHO of us every said “hang on a minute, these waterfall terms are wrong” - if anyone actually read them would have probably thought “lovely, a bit of default interest that we have to share with Lendy then we get our capital back”.
We will simply be seen to be greedy lenders chasing unrealistic returns.
Personally I would challenge the legality of the default interest - in law this would be regarded as a penalty and therefore un-enforceable. This is why your parking ticket is £60 but £30 if you pay it within 30 days. If it was the other way around (as it used to be) £30 but rising to £60 if you don’t pay for 30 days...its a penalty and therefore unenforceable.
We could get a declaration in court that the default interest is unenforceable and thus remove Lendy’s ability to take out vast sums before our capital is returned.
That would probably cost circa £5k in fees and removes the layer of cash in the waterfall rather than £100k (for starters) to challenge the waterfall...that RSM will lap up more and more money dealing with.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,333
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 24, 2020 0:28:47 GMT
For a start the terms don't mention default interest, secondly anyone who read them certainly wouldnt have thought 'a bit of default interest that we have to share with Lendy' as sharing didn't come into it
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Post by buryfc on Aug 24, 2020 2:08:27 GMT
Did you not ask to see a copy of the loan agreements on which your money was being lent out?
And it would appear from this forum lots of lenders liked the idea that bonus interest was being accrued...
And on the point of sharing it? Thats exactly what we signed up to or Lendy wouldn't be able to take our capital via the waterfall.
If you honestly believe didn't agree to this, I think you will find that Lendy then get to take even more of your money before they repay capital as they would be entitled to all of it rather than pari passu.
This is exactly why the FCA have now clamped down on who and how much can be lent via P2P - its clear that people did not understand what they were actually doing when they got into to P2P and this is what the likes of Lendy and et al relied upon.
We put our money in...
This is then lent to borrower who never had to make interest payments as this was deducted from the loan advance (so as long as the amount net of interest met the borrowers requirements, it was a free loan to them) - see below why borrowers flocked to Lendy...
We start to receive our interest payments....that is actually our own money being repaid....
We think we are receiving 1% a month return so after a couple of months we invest in more loans....
And Lendy rinse and repeat...
Andy why did borrowers flock to Lendy?
Lendy almost always lent...it was in their interest to lend and had no down side if it went wrong...and smart brokers realised this and targeted Lendy
Lendy didn't require you to make any interest payments (it was just deducted from what was lent to you)
Lendy terms with borrowers were so bad and their actions so culpable that borrowers had plenty of room to negotiate if Lendy tried to enforce personally on them (have you seen any PG's enforced as yet??)
I presume that you have asked RSM to disclose any of your loans in which the borrower has threatened legal proceedings against the Lendy and the lenders ie us? Easiest way to offset any personal liabilities and ensure that the savvy borrowers got their assets back for next to nothing. You will be shocked when you ask.
I think in summary everyone actually thought Lendy was working for them....checking the borrowers, doing the due diligence, actually understanding the lending industry....the reality was Lendy were working for themselves.
You might find if you speak to some of the borrowers as I have, you will be significantly enlightened.
And before you ask;
Ive spoke to Lendy before I lent (and asked for a copy of the standard loan documentation so I knew on what terms my money was being lent)
I spoke to some borrowers before I lent (not hard to track them down) and more than willing to discuss their project
Ive spoken to RSM...several times and plan to do so in the future
Ive spoken to borrower administrators
And Ive spoken to the FCA
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