zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 5, 2019 9:17:23 GMT
Should someone with such incredible failures in judgement, be allowed to be in charge? It seems as if the 'probation period' for this kind of job comes at the end rather than at the beginning of the activities. Are authorised P2P heavily monitored for sense and capability at the start, or at a change of business such as from boats to buildings?
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 5, 2019 9:30:40 GMT
That seems a bit harsh, when it's BondMason that's actually in wind-down. Yes, the BondMason Core service is winding down to protect clients returns and captial, because we didn't feel an increase in fees, which would have made our Core proposition sustainable, was in the best interests of clients. Ratesetters higher fee model per loan should make them more profitable. A stronger business model for them, but is that in the best interests of their lender clients? One of the problems in the sector is that some platforms have the mindset of marketing agencies, not investment houses. I trust the latter with my funds, not the former. Mario offered his opinion; I thought I'd mine. I like the identification of marketing mindset - yes the spin, and spin again, sort of 'concept space' in their own heads which creates ever-shiny images which don't match the facts - emperor's new clothes (well, one way of reading that fable). If a company (e.g. the main one in discussion) has to recruit a marketing specialist then should that be a warning?
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Post by stevefindlay on Jun 5, 2019 10:41:55 GMT
We provided input into the 2016/17 FCA review of the market, and suggested that P2P platforms have a role of Nominated Credit Officer, who is responsible for reporting (to lenders and regulators) on any differences between the targeted (and marketed) performance to the actual performance achieved each year.
This wasn't adopted / taken forward by the FCA.
Also, I'm not saying platforms shouldn't / can't do marketing, just that the head of Investments at a regulated P2P platform should have requisite experience and be an FCA registered person. In my opinion.
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alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Jun 5, 2019 10:53:14 GMT
That seems a bit harsh, when it's BondMason that's actually in wind-down. Yes, the BondMason Core service is winding down to protect clients returns and captial, because we didn't feel an increase in fees, which would have made our Core proposition sustainable, was in the best interests of clients. Ratesetters higher fee model per loan should make them more profitable. A stronger business model for them, but is that in the best interests of their lender clients? One of the problems in the sector is that some platforms have the mindset of marketing agencies, not investment houses. I trust the latter with my funds, not the former. Mario offered his opinion; I thought I'd mine. Give me the Bondmason approach every time, I have substantial funds with them, I wish that other p2p sites were as transparent and honest.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 5, 2019 11:49:29 GMT
It's on moneybox You and Yours. Radio 4 today. Interview borrower. Name given in program, he claims his project was misrepresented to investors.
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Jun 5, 2019 11:58:34 GMT
fair to say the 'borrower' wasn't a fan of the Lendy boys
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Post by spareapennyor2 on Jun 5, 2019 12:00:51 GMT
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alanh
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Post by alanh on Jun 5, 2019 12:17:28 GMT
I think those of us who are active investors in many different platforms and participate/consult forums such as this are at the forefront of knowing whats going on in p2p. The newspapers are so far behind the curve on these things that its laughable really. These guys haven't been investing in p2p over many years and platforms as many of us have. The collective knowledge of investors on this platform is multiple times higher than any newspaper journalist and I base my investment decisions on what I am experiencing personally as opposed to the completely out of date stuff that appears in the papers. One advantage journalists is that they can place a bunch of calls in an afternoon and expect to be able to speak to company representatives, pundits etc and so get a reasonably up-to-date picture of what's going on. They may also be less subject to confirmation bias. Our view of the industry may be more detailed, but could be lagging in some respects. I have to say I disagree with that. I would take anything company representatives say with a large pinch of salt. I mean if anyone had phoned Liam Brooke a few weeks ago would he have said "actually, we are in real trouble here". What about the Collateral brothers? Or Neil Woodford even? No thanks, I'll take my chances myself by working out whats going on at the coalface. The bias is going to be with company representatives who are always going to be incentivised to accentuate the positives and understate the negatives.
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greenslime
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Post by greenslime on Jun 5, 2019 12:52:15 GMT
I think those of us who are active investors in many different platforms and participate/consult forums such as this are at the forefront of knowing whats going on in p2p. The newspapers are so far behind the curve on these things that its laughable really. These guys haven't been investing in p2p over many years and platforms as many of us have. The collective knowledge of investors on this platform is multiple times higher than any newspaper journalist and I base my investment decisions on what I am experiencing personally as opposed to the completely out of date stuff that appears in the papers. One advantage journalists is that they can place a bunch of calls in an afternoon and expect to be able to speak to company representatives, pundits etc and so get a reasonably up-to-date picture of what's going on. They may also be less subject to confirmation bias. Our view of the industry may be more detailed, but could be lagging in some respects. From my experience in a specialised field totally unrelated to finance I have a rather less rosy view of journalists' ability to acquire, analyse and accurately report information on anything more complex than the AGM of the Upper Netherton Womens' Institute.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 5, 2019 13:05:36 GMT
I've notified LAG leaders of name and what he said, in case of use.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 5, 2019 14:10:31 GMT
Poor from BBC. Incorrectly stated new FCA rules, made no attempt to challenge the borrower with facts from Lendy website at least ie no indication it was a development loan, smaller amount, refinanced on platform once due to borrower changing plan. Borrower may well be correct in assertions (it's Lendy & ties in with some of stuff alleged in another case) but needed to be challenged to get to semblance of truth.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Jun 5, 2019 16:31:26 GMT
Poor from BBC. Incorrectly stated new FCA rules, made no attempt to challenge the borrower with facts from Lendy website at least ie no indication it was a development loan, smaller amount, refinanced on platform once due to borrower changing plan. Borrower may well be correct in assertions (it's Lendy & ties in with some of stuff alleged in another case) but needed to be challenged to get to semblance of truth. I'd only be interested in his opinion of 'misrepresentation of the loan to lenders', if that can be evidenced.
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Vero
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Post by Vero on Jun 5, 2019 20:53:33 GMT
Woodford had a track record with Invesco, then moved to his own fund, where he spent investors' funds on risky, overvalued (often unquoted) companies.
Iliquid, much value lost, investors unable to withdraw funds.
Your attempt at comparison of P2P vs Woodford is trash (and I think you know it, but are trying it on).
In an oversimplified nutshell:
P2P is illiquid at all times. P2P is smoke and mirrors at all times. The platforms are a law unto their own and everything from valuations to secondary markets is under their control.
Woodford's fund.... you knew what you are getting yourself into from the start, its not like he changed his strategy overnight. And as for liquidity, utter trash. Sure when redemptions were suspended it became illiquid by definition. However up until that point you could have quite happily sold at any time.
Why are you so uncivil @wallstreet ? Have I offended you in some way? If so, I do apologise.
Mr Woodford - seems a lovely chap, however his fund was over exposed to iliquid, private companies and unquoted stocks
- not appropriate (or allowed) in an open ended income fund.
Shenanigans:
A few punters exited.
To cover the exit, the OEIC sold liquid assets, pushing the illiquid portion to around 18% - the regulations allow 10% max. Citywire reported this.
Thus exposed, the regulator approached.
The OEIC floated unquoted stakes offshore in Guernsey to duck the 10% max regulation.
And transferred unquoted holdings from the OEIC (including P2P lender Ratesetter) into WPCT in exchange for 9% shares in... WPCT. At 12.8% discount to NAV...
Citywire blew the whistle, more punters exited, more liquid assets sold, further increasing iliquid portion... leading to current suspension.
Strategy:
Suspension - to allow a change of strategy to "reduce exposure to unquoteds and iliquids" and "reposition the fund".
According to Bloomberg data, the unquoted holdings contributed around 40% of the fund's 15% return since launch.
Suspension target - get the "unquoteds and iliquids" down to 10% by the end of the year. New strategy - "zero unquoteds and illiquids".
P2P liquidity: I have lent 6 figure sums via P2P/P2B (secured) over the past 6 years.
I liquidated most of my loan portfolio twice, at double digit %ROI (just retaining rare/favourite loans).
I did not intend to, but had unexpected bills, and P2P was fortunately liquid each time.
It was a good exercise, but annoying to rebuild my loan portfolio again each time, as I am fastidious.
(of course, when there are shenanigans, liquidity can quickly dry up).
I have received double figure NET returns from P2P/P2B every year since 2013. Defaults, yes (death, divorce, failure), but with decent security, well managed into good profit.
I agree, P2P is not a savings account, nor an investment; it is money lending, and takes a bit of work.
I do try hard to avoid shenanigans. 
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