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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 10:26:25 GMT
Posted by hazellend 4 minutes ago I believe nobody knows anything and I just buy the vanguard all world etf when I have more money
Makes sense, I just can't afford to buy it. :-)
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 14, 2019 14:25:43 GMT
leaving aside the passive v active argument could passive investors learn something from Terry Smith with a concentrated portfolio?Most all world trackers have 3000 - 6000 companies depending on the index they track but how much past the top Ten to Twenty holdings bring anything to the party apart from micro percentages(would guess the top 10 are about 20% of the fund on average).When you compere the Vanguard all world ETF mentioned verses a concentrated tracker like the L&G Global 100 it would seem to be a small edge to L&G. So do you really need to "own the world"?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 14, 2019 20:06:39 GMT
leaving aside the passive v active argument could passive investors learn something from Terry Smith with a concentrated portfolio?Most all world trackers have 3000 - 6000 companies depending on the index they track but how much past the top Ten to Twenty holdings bring anything to the party apart from micro percentages(would guess the top 10 are about 20% of the fund on average).When you compere the Vanguard all world ETF mentioned verses a concentrated tracker like the L&G Global 100 it would seem to be a small edge to L&G. So do you really need to "own the world"?
Nail. Head. Hit.
Concentration is the key if you're looking to outperform the index of your choice.
Otherwise you're just going to end up following the index whether by definition (because you've bought the ETF) or by implication (beacause you've over-diversified and so have effectively built your own tracker).
My own portfolios each have roughly no more than 15-20 shares each. Predominantly shares although I do have one account with five ITs in it (but these are specific, concentrated not tracker-esque).
But then my preference is skewed towards growth rather than income. If I was skewed towards income, I would likely have to diversify a little further, maybe 30-40 lines in a portfolio would be the upper limit for a respectable income portfolio from what I've seen (the extra lines are needed for things like prefs and bonds which are an integral part of a sound income investment strategy).
But whichever way, low double-digit concentration is a far cry from the hundreds or thousands !
Of course if you're looking to just follow the index, then by all means be my guest, go buy a passive ETF !
And are you outperforming the index?
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 15, 2019 0:42:34 GMT
One of the most successful fund investors in the country over the past 5 years+ So was Neil Woodford
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 15, 2019 9:44:18 GMT
One of the most successful fund investors in the country over the past 5 years+ So was Neil Woodford That's very true and could happen to any so called star manager but it is unusual for a fund manager to go completely against the path he has followed before & Woodford even left the first dotcom boom alone.But its almost like its an i can do no wrong approach & lets follow the hype this time round with him and nobody has lost yet unless they sold out at a loss (so he may come good!!) But in someways i can see a parallel with some p2p investors and what he did and a possible time line in my mind i.e Woodford fund 1. Lets start with large solid companies and earn a steady income 2.its going well so lets earn a bit more from smaller companies with just a little more risk 3.Its had the odd wobble but were sure it will come good in time so lets invest in micro caps now 4.And finally lets get rich on private equity/start ups which are illiquid but don't worry nobody will want their money back quick and it will come good in time we think possible p2p investor 1.start in lower risk p2p asset backed or with a PF and earn a steady 3% or 4% 2.its going well so lets earn a bit more from small business loans or bling and earn 6% - 8% and feel like were being paid better for the risk 3.Its had the odd wobble and now some of them business don't pay back but were covered by the other loans so lets move up to the 10% range on micro business or foreign platforms etc 4.And now while its been going ok lets move on to illiquid land deals,property development etc It may take a while to get the money back or over run a couple of years but it can't fail and it will come good in time we think And as i type i realise i have been guilty of a couple of points from both camps!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2019 10:16:55 GMT
One of the most successful fund investors in the country over the past 5 years+ So was Neil Woodford Sure was, which is why I spent a lot of time talking to Terry and his staff, reading up on their views and checking out their history. This convinced me that he has developed a process that works, so not a star picker at all, but a star-process developer.
I read up on Neil and felt that he 1) was not taking all his staff, 2) was moving into un-traded shares so not interested.
I don't know Nick Train. But I use a IFA for 20% of my capital and he spent a lot of time for me investigating the team and feels comfortable. Since the deal I have with him has a clear target with consequences I took the risk and like whitehall I'm aware I'm beating my target index.
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Post by longjohn on Jun 15, 2019 13:59:36 GMT
Nick Train keeps a fairly low profile unlike Neil Woodford and Terry Smith who both like a bit of publicity.
I've been wondering if people have been moving money from Neil Woodford funds into Nick Train funds as his LinsellTrain Investment Trust has seriously shot up this year. It was always a high performer carrying a premium of 20%-30% but is now on a premium of 86% (buy one pay double anyone?) with a share price of £1875.00 each!
Personally, I have a decent holding in Finsbury Growth and Income Trust. Nick's been good for me.
Attachments:
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 15, 2019 14:26:11 GMT
Subject discussed in financial section of everyone's favourite tabloid today. Nick Train seems fairly realistic.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 15, 2019 19:36:40 GMT
You pay you money and take your chance. Factors outwith any managers control can scupper even the best.
Lots of places to put money that appear secure till somthing proves it is not.
Art for instance, Where did I put that £10000 Rolf Harris painting ? Sculpture... When did all those Male heroes fall out of favour,
USA .... When Yellowstone Cauldera erupts there goes central/west USA.... Canaries Volcano slides into Atlantic... There goes the East Coast Oil Whoops America just finds it was someone other than Iran blowing up tankers and Prices fall Large Solar flare wipes out all satellites strips half the Ozone layer and we all fry.
Death and Taxes and you can avoid taxes. So shares in Funeral Directors and Barbers should do ok.
A little light relief whic highlights nothing is certain except uncertainty,
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gibmike
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Post by gibmike on Jun 15, 2019 21:06:38 GMT
Nick Train keeps a fairly low profile unlike Neil Woodford and Terry Smith who both like a bit of publicity.
I've been wondering if people have been moving money from Neil Woodford funds into Nick Train funds as his LinsellTrain Investment Trust has seriously shot up this year. It was always a high performer carrying a premium of 20%-30% but is now on a premium of 86% (buy one pay double anyone?) with a share price of £1875.00 each!
Personally, I have a decent holding in Finsbury Growth and Income Trust. Nick's been good for me.
I held this a few years ago at around £900 a share. Decided it wasn't moving and sold after about 6 months. I rate him very highly, reading his monthly commentary (which you can do without owning shares) is very interesting as he doesn't always see the market conditions in the way we/I/press do.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jun 16, 2019 8:14:20 GMT
Re: Paintings & Scupltures.
Its like the stockmarket.
If you cannot be bothered to learn how to pick stocks or are too mean to pay for quality advice, then go buy a passive ETF and hope it works out.
Its the same with art. If you cannot be bothered to learn how to tell the difference between art and "art" or are too mean to pay for quality advice, then go get yourself a lifetime membership to your nearest art museum.
Quality paintings and quality sculptures won't have a problem keeping their value, let alone appreciating.
The 'art market ' is not concerned with creative worth . It is the artificial construct of dealers and advertising. An experienced craftsman could probably point you in the direction of merit and you could buy in VERY cheaply, but you wouldn't realise it in your timescale or only if someone influential was able to create a following. Marketing art is very similar to creating a politician, transitory and mediocre. I collect 18th century derby porcelain, because I like it. There's a limited market and its quirky. Its similar to gold in value. I also have a container 18 cubic metres of 1950's china. Try Hermes Scarves. They are a niche market.
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Post by samford71 on Jun 16, 2019 10:23:25 GMT
Nick Train keeps a fairly low profile unlike Neil Woodford and Terry Smith who both like a bit of publicity.
I've been wondering if people have been moving money from Neil Woodford funds into Nick Train funds as his LinsellTrain Investment Trust has seriously shot up this year. It was always a high performer carrying a premium of 20%-30% but is now on a premium of 86% (buy one pay double anyone?) with a share price of £1875.00 each!
Personally, I have a decent holding in Finsbury Growth and Income Trust. Nick's been good for me.
LTI is a curious beast. 47% of LTI is in Lindsell Train Limited, it's own management company, which is 73% owned by Lindsell & Train, 3% by staff and the remaining 24% by LTI. As such, investors in LTI are, in effect, investing in Lindsell & Train but not in their stock picking skills but in their business skills.
Lindsell Train Limited (LTL) has £18bn under management, of which LTI is just £188m and of course almost half of that is in LTL. Given the fees that LTL generate, it's fairly understandable why LTI is trading at this premium. The question you have to ask is whether this will continue. If LTL doubles in AUM, LTI will explode higher in value. If LTL ever has what we might now term a "Woodford" moment and AUM collapses, then LTI's price will collapse. LTI is essentially now a bet on LTL's AUM. Given that equity fund AUM's tend to rise and fall with the equity market (by definition) then it's not surprising that after the ten year bull market, LTI is trading here.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Jun 16, 2019 15:46:36 GMT
Re: Paintings & Scupltures.
Its like the stockmarket.
If you cannot be bothered to learn how to pick stocks or are too mean to pay for quality advice, then go buy a passive ETF and hope it works out.
Its the same with art. If you cannot be bothered to learn how to tell the difference between art and "art" or are too mean to pay for quality advice, then go get yourself a lifetime membership to your nearest art museum.
Quality paintings and quality sculptures won't have a problem keeping their value, let alone appreciating.
The 'art market ' is not concerned with creative worth . It is the artificial construct of dealers and advertising. An experienced craftsman could probably point you in the direction of merit and you could buy in VERY cheaply, but you wouldn't realise it in your timescale or only if someone influential was able to create a following. Marketing art is very similar to creating a politician, transitory and mediocre. I collect 18th century derby porcelain, because I like it. There's a limited market and its quirky. Its similar to gold in value. I also have a container 18 cubic metres of 1950's china. Try Hermes Scarves. They are a niche market. An interesting listen - link
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 8:04:21 GMT
I see the Daily Mail (I know, I know but I was in the Gym at the time) has accused Nick and Terry of taking too much "out of their funds" by conflating "pay" with "dividend".
Good to know the DM keeps its finger on the pulse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 9:21:54 GMT
My Gym carries the DM, the Sun and the Wharfedale Observer (a weekly). Well, I can't "read" the Sun as "words fail me". Once you know that the local MP has opened an envelope the WO has kind of lost its reader, that only leaves the DM and I like to check out the financial page (singular) to see what nonsense is not-true this day.
Our Library has recently been upgraded, again. (Benefits of living in the Socialist Republic of Leeds). Allows me to read the Guardian which yesterday was a stream of stupidity.
Back to the internet and its comfortable echo-chamber.
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