adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 15, 2019 18:21:49 GMT
Exactly although I would add some of them should never have been advanced in the first place e.g. speed boats, Park homes and as for the art loans etc not being properly secured...
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 15, 2019 19:21:00 GMT
'....There are green shoots on FS that they are trying to address past errors....' The problem IMO with this comment is that it seems to be based more upon hope rather than fact. There are far too many overdue loans that should have been formally defaulted ages ago with appropriate action enforced rather than meaningless updates with just about everyone knowing (including the platform) what the eventual outcome will be. So they continue to treat lenders with as idiots contempt. Only once this attitude ceases and a reasonable amount of time passes will confidence return.
Many platforms have been reliant upon a positive churn rate of lenders. This trend IMO has now reversed. Personally I rue the day that the ineffective FCA became involved as it gave platforms a level of integrity which they took full advantage of hiding behind. Doing some basic DD on the platforms you wouldn't loan them the money for a cup of tea let alone trust your hard earned cash with them.
It follows that in a 'normal' business, the cost(s) of mistakes/errors are carried by the owners/shareholders. With P2P the cost of those errors, made by the owners/management etc, are carried by the lenders/investors. Hence there appears to be a negative attitude towards many platforms - unfortunately one or two bad apples do have an impact on them all.
IMO Property loans are complex and recovery/legals even more complex. I assume 24 months past due date to be the point I consider writing them off, To date that is 1 loan of mine.
To date big overall losses actually given on completed loans are not seen on any platform, Individual loans may be a loss but even then the number of 100% losses taken over ALL P2P is miniscule.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 15, 2019 19:33:01 GMT
IMO Property loans are complex and recovery/legals even more complex. I assume 24 months past due date to be the point I consider writing them off, To date that is 1 loan of mine.
To date big overall losses actually given on completed loans are not seen on any platform, Individual loans may be a loss but even then the number of 100% losses taken over ALL P2P is miniscule.
, that may be correct. With COL and now Lendy both in administration that could well change, and the mere possibility of that should be enough for retail (and other) punters to be especially wary about starting or expanding their exposure to P2P. Let the above two scenarios play out, see the quantum of the returns there and then watch to see the effects of the fallout, on the P2P marketplace. Sorry if that doesn't play to the P2P traders desire for fresh blood to constantly enter the market place and buy out their exposure/risk, but a period of everybody being made to hold their loans to term may not be such a bad thing. More selective / prudent participation by lenders = more selective/ prudent origination by platforms (which is, I think, what we are seeing with MT).
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 15, 2019 19:41:43 GMT
IMO Property loans are complex and recovery/legals even more complex. I assume 24 months past due date to be the point I consider writing them off, To date that is 1 loan of mine.
To date big overall losses actually given on completed loans are not seen on any platform, Individual loans may be a loss but even then the number of 100% losses taken over ALL P2P is miniscule.
More selective / prudent participation by lenders = more selective/ prudent origination by platforms (which is, I think, what we are seeing with MT). I agree everybody should always be very wary. On a seperate note MT is the only platform I have a loss at the moment. (most loans still to end so will probably be a profit overall) 
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 15, 2019 20:01:32 GMT
possibly but not exactly insignificant to people that hold them - I think FS have 3 to date but there are many more to follow. Have read the legal chambers report about the art loans case and it is not good reading to me but I am not a lawyer. This is clouding the issue - the point is that far too many loans default and of those far too many have an extremely poor recovery rate e.g Whitehaven which I make at about 2.5% - just how much money are we going to get back for the art loans?
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jun 17, 2019 21:33:47 GMT
IMO Property loans are complex and recovery/legals even more complex. I assume 24 months past due date to be the point I consider writing them off, To date that is 1 loan of mine.
To date big overall losses actually given on completed loans are not seen on any platform, Individual loans may be a loss but even then the number of 100% losses taken over ALL P2P is miniscule.
IMO Property loans are not complex although I concede that the legals may be. It's very simple, the borrower does not repay on time, you allow them possibly a grace period then you take action and recover the debt. That's assuming there has been no massaging of the LTV, the loan has been monitored/managed and the figures stack up.
The complex issue factor arises when the platform is out of it's depth and shouldn't have entertained the loan in the first place. Then, rather than bite the bullet they prefer to issue repetitive updates which are nothing of the sort - they are someone's in-house imagination. Reading the updates on several overdue loans they become so repetitive to border on the idiotic.
Not sure where your 24 months comes from. Why not 18 months or 36 months. There appears to be little science behind it IMO and certainly a traditional lender would act with more urgency. Write the loan down or even off for tax purposes at least and then count any future return as income.
Of course there have been minimal 100% losses in P2P. But there are a fair number which fall into c50% and above bracket with several more hovering around the corner which many platforms are engaged in the Olympic sport of can-kicking.
IIRC, ozboy first mentioned on this forum the 'dodgy' valuation issue a couple of years ago at least which was largely ignored. Those dodgy valuations combined with slick dodgy borrowing individuals plus platform greed - those chickens are coming home to roost.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 17, 2019 21:42:08 GMT
Jan 10, 2017 Post by ozboy on Jan 10, 2017 at 12:17pm [ under PBL157/PBL158 - Lendy ]
Seems to me that shoddy & misleading Valuation Reports are OK and acceptable on here then, no-one seems to be getting too bothered about it?
Until, of course, the Loan defaults and money is lost because of sales problems stemming from dubious Planning Permissions which were not commented on, or worse, completely omitted.
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