ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 20, 2014 17:36:04 GMT
For anyone who hasn't noticed, the excess of this loan is now open for investment.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Oct 20, 2014 18:08:24 GMT
I'm sure a number will be concerned by SS's move into BLs. I have been too but, this one has a very good ltv & land sale likelihood, if things go wrong, so have out my money were my mouth is & invested & taken the upfront interest payment  |
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 20, 2014 18:25:38 GMT
I wouldn't mind a bit more clarity around how a partial repayment will work, and at that point I might want out as I assume the Half being sold has the planning approved bit and thus the value of the remaining half of the land I would expect to be much lower (than half the value). Maybe too many 'unquantifiables' to worry at the moment though and I have invested.
Did anyone notice how much went up when the loan rolled?
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 20, 2014 19:12:59 GMT
I wouldn't mind a bit more clarity around how a partial repayment will work, and at that point I might want out as I assume the Half being sold has the planning approved bit and thus the value of the remaining half of the land I would expect to be much lower (than half the value). Maybe too many 'unquantifiables' to worry at the moment though and I have invested.Did anyone notice how much went up when the loan rolled? I looked very shortly after it went up and I think it was around 16%, so probably a bit more than that, but not much.
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Post by savingstream on Oct 20, 2014 19:29:15 GMT
I wouldn't mind a bit more clarity around how a partial repayment will work, and at that point I might want out as I assume the Half being sold has the planning approved bit and thus the value of the remaining half of the land I would expect to be much lower (than half the value). Maybe too many 'unquantifiables' to worry at the moment though and I have invested. For clarification all the land has planning approval on. The negotiations between the borrower and the national retirement home builder are ongoing as obviously the vendor wants the builder to purchase 100% of the land, however they have only made an offer on 50% of it so far to be purchased in February.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 20, 2014 21:56:12 GMT
Did anyone notice how much went up when the loan rolled? I looked very shortly after it went up and I think it was around 16%, so probably a bit more than that, but not much. Something odd is going on here. When I looked a some point this afternoon, there was about £18k (about 4%) left available. Not long ago there was £47k (just over 10%) available. In the time it took me to get around to writing this, that has dropped to £44k (just under 10%) available. My guess would be that a number of investors in the original loan did not respond to the "We're going to roll over your investment" email and had their investment rolled over but really didn't want to do that -- so they've put some/all of their parts up for sale. Perhaps savingstream would care to let us know if my theory is correct. If it is, then if the unintentionally rolled over parts are taken up quickly enough then no harm will have been done. If it takes a while, however, then some of those whose investment was involuntarily rolled over might be less than pleased.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 20, 2014 22:34:47 GMT
Well from what ramblin rose suggested only around £10k of PBL 2a wouldn't have rolled which without the increased size of the loan would have given newer investors very little opportunity to increase or diversify their investments. On the other hand I just went to check how much was left and observed like mikes1531 that the amount had gone up some 20+k since I last looked. It could be individual investor/s putting bits up for sale as suggested, or they may even have asked SS to repay them if they hadn't realised it was about to roll, and it was put up by SS. I have have mixed feelings about whether rolls should be the 'preserve' of existing investors, but this might be less of an issue if SS increased their lending base - I think about 8/10 of the current boat loans are rolls, and now we're entering the realm of rolling PBL s I hope we're going to see some 'new blood' soon. |
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 20, 2014 23:00:38 GMT
Thanks for the information savingstream. What I assumed was that the retirement home builder would want to purchase with the permission in place for the large care home, and if the land was split the bit left would have to apply for planning for whatever a purchaser wanted to do bearing in mind there would probably be a care home next door, so may not be valued as currently stands. I don't know how much of the existing loan might be repaid in February either, so I was really querying the assertion that stated the LTV would drop I guess. But I'm not a planner or valuer so maybe I've miss assumed / understood.
In Edit: failing to sort out the quote again - between my iPad and this system I give up - can't remember the tip for deleting posts either or I'd start again  .
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 21, 2014 9:42:45 GMT
- can't remember the tip for deleting posts either or I'd start again . It's under the cog-wheel options at the top right of your post (rather than the bottom right, which I think many of us mistakenly try and use - they belong to the post below  )
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j
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Post by j on Oct 21, 2014 9:47:59 GMT
Having read the valuation report once again, even the forced sale value is estimated @ £600k, giving an ltv of 75%. Many BLs are starting near enough to that level anyway these days & paying 10-11% on draw down.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 21, 2014 10:16:04 GMT
Having read the valuation report once again, even the forced sale value is estimated @ £600k, giving an ltv of 75%. Many BLs are starting near enough to that level anyway these days & paying 10-11% on draw down. Hope I haven't sent unnecessary alarm bells ringing; I'm not querying the valuation at the moment (which is valued to include the planning consent). It's this SS statement (on the loan detail page) " because once half the land has been sold, the majority of the loan will be repaid, the LTV on the remaining land will drop significantly." However, as I don't seem to be making myself clear and it's a bit of an unknown to us as we don't know what proportion of the loan will be repaid either, I don't think its worth worrying about for now.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Oct 21, 2014 17:54:38 GMT
Having read the valuation report once again, even the forced sale value is estimated @ £600k, giving an ltv of 75%. Many BLs are starting near enough to that level anyway these days & paying 10-11% on draw down. Hope I haven't sent unnecessary alarm bells ringing; I'm not querying the valuation at the moment (which is valued to include the planning consent). It's this SS statement (on the loan detail page) " because once half the land has been sold, the majority of the loan will be repaid, the LTV on the remaining land will drop significantly." However, as I don't seem to be making myself clear and it's a bit of an unknown to us as we don't know what proportion of the loan will be repaid either, I don't think its worth worrying about for now. Forgive me star dust as I'm recalling figures from my head from reading the valuation this morning. A number of hours have passed since then & nocturnal dementia has set in (comes with age as I'm starting to find out). The forced sale value was £600k as outlined before, I think normal value was at around £700-£750k & development value was circa £1 mil. Any of these would easily cover the full loan value plus 12% interest. Thinking about it now, SS will obviously be paid a fair chunk more whether the loan ever goes belly up or not. I'll revisit again at some point but to me it won't make a difference as I took the immediate interest payment option so am in this till the term end. Would still be good to investigate further though for further peace of mind.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 22, 2014 14:26:55 GMT
Well from what ramblin rose suggested only around £10k of PBL 2a wouldn't have rolled which without the increased size of the loan would have given newer investors very little opportunity to increase or diversify their investments. On the other hand I just went to check how much was left and observed like mikes1531 that the amount had gone up some 20+k since I last looked. It could be individual investor/s putting bits up for sale as suggested, or they may even have asked SS to repay them if they hadn't realised it was about to roll, and it was put up by SS. Either I'm imagining things or it's still happening. Late last night (21/Oct) there was less than £100 of PBL014 available. Now there's nearly £50k. I'd appreciate it if savingstream would explain what actually is going on. In the absence of genuine data from those in a position to know I'm going to stick with my theory that an awful lot of PBL002a investors didn't really want their money rolled into PBL014. Their money was transferred into the new loan because they hadn't made their position known to SS, and now they're disposing of the parts they don't want to hold via the secondary market. If that is what is happening, then I would hope that SS wouldn't make the same decision again when the next loan rollover comes up.
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Post by savingstream on Oct 22, 2014 14:41:03 GMT
We can confirm that a proportion of this loan was not renewed by investors, hence underwriting was necessary in order to renew the loan.
These underwriting funds are now being released back to the market.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 22, 2014 14:48:35 GMT
Well from what ramblin rose suggested only around £10k of PBL 2a wouldn't have rolled which without the increased size of the loan would have given newer investors very little opportunity to increase or diversify their investments. On the other hand I just went to check how much was left and observed like mikes1531 that the amount had gone up some 20+k since I last looked. It could be individual investor/s putting bits up for sale as suggested, or they may even have asked SS to repay them if they hadn't realised it was about to roll, and it was put up by SS. Either I'm imagining things or it's still happening. Late last night (21/Oct) there was less than £100 of PBL014 available. Now there's nearly £50k. I'd appreciate it if savingstream would explain what actually is going on. In the absence of genuine data from those in a position to know I'm going to stick with my theory that an awful lot of PBL002a investors didn't really want their money rolled into PBL014. Their money was transferred into the new loan because they hadn't made their position known to SS, and now they're disposing of the parts they don't want to hold via the secondary market. If that is what is happening, then I would hope that SS wouldn't make the same decision again when the next loan rollover comes up. Well, it depends on whether they were also actually unhappy about it. For example, if it had happened to me, I wouldn't be unhappy about it but might still have decided I wanted to dispose of them. Another alternative might be to give more notice than this time. Swings and roundabouts - as I said in an earlier post, it would suit me to have things rolled unless opted out, given that there is a mechanism to dispose of them reasonably quickly. But I do see others might be annoyed that they had to then wait a day or so more in order to get their money out.
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