p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jul 1, 2019 22:43:42 GMT
I have done fairly exhaustive research on P2P and other investment opportunities. Even when I ask providers again and again to share their comprehensive metrics with me, including their year-by-year breakdown of delayed payments and defaults, hardly any platform is willing to share that data. Their sales staff will adopt canny techniques to try to avoid provide what for me at least is essential data.
Similarly, almost all P2P platforms and other investment opportunities will go out of their way to avoid answering questions about which ratio of loans have been paid back and whether they have a 100% payment track-record.
I have only come across a tiny number of platforms that both readily publish comprehensive figures in terms of their track-record and have a 100% rate of paying lenders. Even better, with one or two, their figures are independently audited by the likes of Brismo. I am not sure if I can name these providers here as it may show bias towards them (can share with folk via Direct Messages if anyone is interested), but I was wondering if anyone could share their insights on the above two points i.e. comprehensive performance statistics including defaults and 100% track-record of paying investors?
Which companies openly publish such data?
Which companies have a 100% track-record of paying lenders?
I totally and fully appreciate that past performance is by no means a guide to what may happen in the future, and one has to do their due diligence on multitudinous other factors, but any company that is both transparent with publishing comprehensive loan data and has a 100% track-record (or there or thereabouts) of payments to lenders is certainly worth considering in my book.
Many thanks.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 1, 2019 22:57:17 GMT
You ain’t going to get a 100% record at the high interest end of P2P. Of course, every company has 100% track record in the early days.
From your post it seems clear to me that P2P is not the right investment for you. High returns come with high risk and you must have very high risk/volatility tolerance to invest.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jul 1, 2019 23:35:49 GMT
Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.
Not expecting very high rates, as I'm fully aware that would obviously involve a higher rate of risk.
There are platforms that have been going for a few years that have a 100% track-record, or very close to it e.g. CrowdProperty.
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Post by df on Jul 1, 2019 23:37:58 GMT
I have done fairly exhaustive research on P2P and other investment opportunities. Even when I ask providers again and again to share their comprehensive metrics with me, including their year-by-year breakdown of delayed payments and defaults, hardly any platform is willing to share that data. Their sales staff will adopt canny techniques to try to avoid provide what for me at least is essential data. Similarly, almost all P2P platforms and other investment opportunities will go out of their way to avoid answering questions about which ratio of loans have been paid back and whether they have a 100% payment track-record. I have only come across a tiny number of platforms that both readily publish comprehensive figures in terms of their track-record and have a 100% rate of paying lenders. Even better, with one or two, their figures are independently audited by the likes of Brismo. I am not sure if I can name these providers here as it may show bias towards them (can share with folk via Direct Messages if anyone is interested), but I was wondering if anyone could share their insights on the above two points i.e. comprehensive performance statistics including defaults and 100% track-record of paying investors? Which companies openly publish such data? Which companies have a 100% track-record of paying lenders? I totally and fully appreciate that past performance is by no means a guide to what may happen in the future, and one has to do their due diligence on multitudinous other factors, but any company that is both transparent with publishing comprehensive loan data and has a 100% track-record (or there or thereabouts) of payments to lenders is certainly worth considering in my book. Many thanks. Lending Works, Growth Street, Ratesetter, Landbay and Assetz Capital access accounts so far paid the promised rates and on time. I wouldn't rely too much on publish data - it can be misleading.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 2, 2019 5:56:52 GMT
... Which companies openly publish such data?... To be honest, I know that I know nothing. There's "data", meaningful data, out dated data and ..... For example, Z is the oldest platform which provides tons of data. Does Z publish data? Yes. Is it meaningful? I don't know. Is it outdated? depending which data set you are looking at. Does Z have clear definition about defaults? Yes. Does Z pay lenders on time? I don't know. Do Z borrowers pay lenders on time? most of them are. Does Z publish selling loan time frame data? no. Does Z publish data regarding interest adjustment fee? no. probably most important questions, does Z guarantee the advertised return? of course not, capital at risk investment without FSCS cover. Did I get my advertised return? I didn't. Would I be happy to increase my investment on Z now? no. Of course, there are a number of platforms maintaining the advertised return so far mentioned by other posters here.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 2, 2019 5:59:42 GMT
Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated. Not expecting very high rates, as I'm fully aware that would obviously involve a higher rate of risk. There are platforms that have been going for a few years that have a 100% track-record, or very close to it e.g. CrowdProperty. Apologies, force of habit. My preference is for self select loans 12 - 16% I’m aware of crows property but always avoided it due to rumours that loans are oversubscribed and hard to get a significant chunk of. I have painfully discovered that the biggest risk in P2P is the platform itself. Following loan DD by myself and the crowd here my returns would be excellent if not for platform fraud (********** and *****) and unbelievable FCA incompetence.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jul 2, 2019 11:58:02 GMT
Lending Works, Growth Street, Ratesetter, Landbay and Assetz Capital access accounts so far paid the promised rates and on time. I wouldn't rely too much on publish data - it can be misleading. Thank you for helpful insights. Have these platforms lived up to a 100% payment rate? With Assetz Capital, for instance, both the statistics on their data page and also countless reviews on Trustpilot etc. reveal that many lenders have not received their capital and/or interest? For example: "I have invested money in 7 loans with Assetz and 5 of them have gone into default. 2 of them finally paid up after a long protracted process of repossession, one I got all of my capital back and some of the interest." Any thoughts please?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 2, 2019 12:25:28 GMT
Thank you for helpful insights. Have these platforms lived up to a 100% payment rate? With Assetz Capital, for instance, both the statistics on their data page and also countless reviews on Trustpilot etc. reveal that many lenders have not received their capital and/or interest? For example: "I have invested money in 7 loans with Assetz and 5 of them have gone into default. 2 of them finally paid up after a long protracted process of repossession, one I got all of my capital back and some of the interest." Any thoughts please? The review relates to the manual accounts not the access accounts. Although the loans are largely the same, the way the accessaccounts operate mean that in normal operating conditions capital & interest will be paid on time/request. This is not guaranteed in difficult times but then the same can be said of all P2P access-style accounts.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jul 2, 2019 15:06:14 GMT
Thank you for helpful insights. Have these platforms lived up to a 100% payment rate? With Assetz Capital, for instance, both the statistics on their data page and also countless reviews on Trustpilot etc. reveal that many lenders have not received their capital and/or interest? For example: "I have invested money in 7 loans with Assetz and 5 of them have gone into default. 2 of them finally paid up after a long protracted process of repossession, one I got all of my capital back and some of the interest." Any thoughts please? I think you’ll find that was an isolated case of someone hand picking a few loans which isn’t as diversified as we suggest. Our default rate is very modest and the secured nature of our lending provides good probability of full recovery, as evidenced for example by the recent ones. Our Access Accounts have a 100% record of paying the target interest on time every time since inception and has services £1.3bn (billion not million) of redemptions on time every time to date. Although clearly this is an investment not a bank account and that could change in a difficult period. Nonetheless we take security on every loan and have a loan book at <65% LTV.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 15:52:13 GMT
It seems to me that you are asking the wrong question. After all performance in the past is not necessarily indicative of performance in the future. What company A may have said before going into administration is not what it now says for example.
I think you have to factor in a bunch of things, risk of portal failure, risk of false valuation, risk failing to receive interest and quoted interest rate. Once you do all this you quickly come up with rates of between full capital loss and 6 to 9% as being very reasonable but far less than you could have hoped for in the stock market.
Asking your question just seems to be rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
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Post by df on Jul 2, 2019 21:12:10 GMT
Thank you for helpful insights. Have these platforms lived up to a 100% payment rate? With Assetz Capital, for instance, both the statistics on their data page and also countless reviews on Trustpilot etc. reveal that many lenders have not received their capital and/or interest? For example: "I have invested money in 7 loans with Assetz and 5 of them have gone into default. 2 of them finally paid up after a long protracted process of repossession, one I got all of my capital back and some of the interest." Any thoughts please? Yes, all accounts I've mentioned have delivered 100% of what they've promised so far. As for AC, you have to differentiate between the types of accounts AC offers. I wouldn't treat comments posted on TP as an investment guide - it can be very misleading. In this instance (invested in 7 loans with Assetz) it sounds like a poor strategy - AC offers plenty of room for diversification for manual investors.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 3, 2019 7:31:13 GMT
... Which companies have a 100% track-record of paying lenders? ... It rather depends on what you mean by 100%, do you mean all interest and all capital paid in full and on time? If so only platforms with PFs are likely to meet this criteria, but a PF just covers late payments and defaults, it doesn't mean they are not happening. In P2P there will be late payments and defaults, the trick is for the interest earned to significantly exceed the bad debt, to give a rate of interest you are happy with.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jul 9, 2019 16:50:26 GMT
Thank you for helpful insights. Have these platforms lived up to a 100% payment rate? With Assetz Capital, for instance, both the statistics on their data page and also countless reviews on Trustpilot etc. reveal that many lenders have not received their capital and/or interest? For example: "I have invested money in 7 loans with Assetz and 5 of them have gone into default. 2 of them finally paid up after a long protracted process of repossession, one I got all of my capital back and some of the interest." Any thoughts please? Yes, all accounts I've mentioned have delivered 100% of what they've promised so far. As for AC, you have to differentiate between the types of accounts AC offers. I wouldn't treat comments posted on TP as an investment guide - it can be very misleading. In this instance (invested in 7 loans with Assetz) it sounds like a poor strategy - AC offers plenty of room for diversification for manual investors. Thank you for your feedback. I understand what you're saying. I would respectfully disagree in terms of comments on TP. While one has to be sceptical of some reviews, if there are countless people stating they haven't received their money back then, unless 100% of them are blatantly lying, it means the platform does not have a 100% payment track-record. As for the lender's poor strategy in terms of diversification, that is respectfully irrelevant to the point being discussed about whether a platform has paid 100% of people 100% of their capital and interest. It's obviously AC don't have this track-record - which doesn't mean at all one shouldn't invest with them.
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Vero
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Post by Vero on Jul 9, 2019 19:37:28 GMT
I have only come across a tiny number of platforms that both readily publish comprehensive figures in terms of their track-record and have a 100% rate of paying lenders. Even better, with one or two, their figures are independently audited by the likes of Brismo. I am not sure if I can name these providers here as it may show bias towards them (can share with folk via Direct Messages if anyone is interested), but I was wondering if anyone could share their insights on the above two points i.e. comprehensive performance statistics including defaults and 100% track-record of paying investors? Which companies openly publish such data? Which companies have a 100% track-record of paying lenders? I totally and fully appreciate that past performance is by no means a guide to what may happen in the future, and one has to do their due diligence on multitudinous other factors, but any company that is both transparent with publishing comprehensive loan data and has a 100% track-record (or there or thereabouts) of payments to lenders is certainly worth considering in my book. Hello p2pfan. I see you are already aware of CrowdProperty. I've lent via UK p2p for 7 years, and CP are the only platform I deal with that meets the criteria you specify - transparent, 5 years of 100% payback, Brismo audited etc.
My earlier post on the subject:
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jul 9, 2019 19:47:21 GMT
Yes, all accounts I've mentioned have delivered 100% of what they've promised so far. As for AC, you have to differentiate between the types of accounts AC offers. I wouldn't treat comments posted on TP as an investment guide - it can be very misleading. In this instance (invested in 7 loans with Assetz) it sounds like a poor strategy - AC offers plenty of room for diversification for manual investors. Thank you for your feedback. I understand what you're saying. I would respectfully disagree in terms of comments on TP. While one has to be sceptical of some reviews, if there are countless people stating they haven't received their money back then, unless 100% of them are blatantly lying, it means the platform does not have a 100% payment track-record. As for the lender's poor strategy in terms of diversification, that is respectfully irrelevant to the point being discussed about whether a platform has paid 100% of people 100% of their capital and interest. It's obviously AC don't have this track-record - which doesn't mean at all one shouldn't invest with them. I think you should seriously consider whether you should be investing in P2P lending. I suspect you would not pass our new investment tests that the FCA will require later this year. Investment has risk of some loss, that’s how the higher gross returns are delivered. Your hope to find an investment platform that has no risk and no losses at all to reduce gross returns is a mirage and I would urge you to not invest in P2P at all and stick with bank accounts. Sorry to be so direct but higher gross returns and some losses to deduct off that is the reality of all investment. All we can do as a platform is seek to minimise the losses versus the gross returns.
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