IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 26, 2020 10:12:28 GMT
I think one would probably be wise to have a small toe dipped into the crypto water as part of diversification, and especially with government debt rising everywhere.
My goal is 0.5% of investments. Not there yet.
If it disappears, can afford to lose it.
it it takes off, won't miss out.
I see at as a long term hold (10 years+) - too volatile for shorter term, unless you relish high stakes day trading.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 26, 2020 10:31:29 GMT
I think one would probably be wise to have a small toe dipped into the crypto water as part of diversification, and especially with government debt rising everywhere. My goal is 0.5% of investments. Not there yet. If it disappears, can afford to lose it. it it takes off, won't miss out. I see at as a long term hold (10 years+) - too volatile for shorter term, unless you relish high stakes day trading. Do you perceive crypto as actually potentially having a useful future in some regard, or just as something that now has so many acolytes that it's worth diversifying into their madness for? Not trying to imply there's anything wrong with the latter btw. It's no different to gold I suppose in that regard - basically useless, but prized for whatever reason.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 26, 2020 10:51:30 GMT
I think one would probably be wise to have a small toe dipped into the crypto water as part of diversification, and especially with government debt rising everywhere. My goal is 0.5% of investments. Not there yet. If it disappears, can afford to lose it. it it takes off, won't miss out. I see at as a long term hold (10 years+) - too volatile for shorter term, unless you relish high stakes day trading. Do you perceive crypto as actually potentially having a useful future in some regard, or just as something that now has so many acolytes that it's worth diversifying into their madness for? Not trying to imply there's anything wrong with the latter btw. It's no different to gold I suppose in that regard - basically useless, but prized for whatever reason. I mean, a bit of the latter - and I have a tiny bit of gold too. But I think there is a possibility crypto might become more useful as a currency as things like MMT take off. Mostly I don't trust the pound sterling and most of what I have/will have is in that, so I want other things to hold value for the future. Mainly other currencies (stocks and some cash), but a small bit of crypto.
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Post by martin44 on Nov 28, 2020 19:53:53 GMT
WARREN BUFFET
“I don’t own any cryptocurrency. I never will ,You can’t do anything with it except sell it to somebody else.”
on Feb. 25th 2020, Justin Sun (TRX) said in a tweet that he had gifted cryptocurrency to Buffet and that the block-chain data proves that the billionaire has not moved his gift of crypto assets:
JUSTIN SUN
“The cryptos $BTC/$TRX that Mr. Buffett owns remain intact w/ #blockchain proof, which is the beauty of blockchain.”
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Post by wallstreet on Dec 9, 2020 23:58:23 GMT
wallstreet ... had you risked your arm on june 30 ... your above post date, you would have got bitcoin for a nats over 9000, its trading today at +18000 ... 100% gain in 5 months  
I understand what risk is. You do not.
End of story.
<comment removed by mod>
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 10, 2020 10:03:38 GMT
It's no different to gold I suppose in that regard - basically useless, but prized for whatever reason. Gold does have an intrinsic use, though - it has many uses in electronics, as well as various other manufacturing. And, yes, it has high consumer desirability for jewellery. The rules of supply and demand apply. Cryptocurrencies simply don't even have that. They don't exist in any way unless everybody wants them to. The technology behind them has uses, sure. But the cryptos themselves? Nope.
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nick
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Post by nick on Dec 15, 2020 22:30:11 GMT
I've been spending some time trying to work out the cheapest way to buy bitcoin to hold for the long term. I've come to the conclusion that holding physical bitcoin is by far the cheapest way to go as you can get reasonable spreads and low transaction fees on the major exchanges. The carry costs of holding long derivative positions on CFD/spreadbet platforms are typically 20%+pa. IG have a base holding cost of 20%pa +/-7.5% for long/short positions on most crypto (except bitcoin) so you are charged 27.5%pa on long positions and receive 12.5%pa on short positions.
This has made me think that there is way to earn a relatively safe 12.5% by going long physical ether and hedging the position with a short ether CFD position on IG, ie a cash and carry trade. Even accounting for spread and transaction costs, and for funding margin on the CFD that will dilute the return, this trade still looks quite attractive and should yield 10%+pa if held over a year. I'm still trying to work out if I'm missing something as the return looks a bit rich. Has anyone done a cash and carry trade in crypto?
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Dec 16, 2020 7:38:19 GMT
I am certain, at least digital currency by the central banks is coming.
China is already experimenting with digital currency.
The problem with crypto is if it has any sort of success Governments will ban it, you will lose the lot and/or end up in jail.
Through digital the Governments can issue UBI, therefore inducing inflation. Spend it within a period of time or lose your digital money.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 16, 2020 7:55:35 GMT
I've come to the conclusion that holding physical bitcoin is by far the cheapest way to go... Genuine question... What do you mean by this? To me, holding a currency physically means having a wad of notes. Obvs, that doesn't apply to cryptos... So?
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james100
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Post by james100 on Dec 16, 2020 9:10:36 GMT
I've come to the conclusion that holding physical bitcoin is by far the cheapest way to go... Genuine question... What do you mean by this? To me, holding a currency physically means having a wad of notes. Obvs, that doesn't apply to cryptos... So? Hard wallet, basically a secured memory stick with the Blockchain + relevant data, and a (generally) a small screen for transaction management. You can stick it in a safe, basically.
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bobo
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Post by bobo on Dec 16, 2020 9:43:11 GMT
The problem I have with holding gold is that the coins are too big. Who is ever going to sell me a loaf for a sovereign and give me change? I have considered holding a bag of silver as well, in a leather bag on my belt but you have to pay vat on silver and it gets in the way of my sword, quill pen etc.
Anyone remember the Big Bag when they went looking for their USB of bitcoin?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Dec 16, 2020 10:21:01 GMT
The problem I have with holding gold is that the coins are too big. Who is ever going to sell me a loaf for a sovereign and give me change? I have considered holding a bag of silver as well, in a leather bag on my belt but you have to pay vat on silver and it gets in the way of my sword, quill pen etc.
Anyone remember the Big Bag when they went looking for their USB of bitcoin?
Classic BBT: " The Bitcoin Entanglement" (potted highlights)
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nick
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Post by nick on Dec 16, 2020 15:46:43 GMT
I've come to the conclusion that holding physical bitcoin is by far the cheapest way to go... Genuine question... What do you mean by this? To me, holding a currency physically means having a wad of notes. Obvs, that doesn't apply to cryptos... So? My reference to 'physical' bitcoin is to actual bitcoin bought outright and fully funded held in a wallet or at a custodian, versus a derivative product such as a future, CFD or spread bet where there is a funding cost. Effectively you have custody and full control over the asset, not withstanding that it's intangible in nature. 'Physical' probably isn't the right term, but is often used in other commodity markets irrespective of the physicality of the underlying asset, eg if you hold carbon allowances you are usually referred to being long the physical.
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Post by wallstreet on Dec 16, 2020 16:29:43 GMT
China is already experimenting with digital currency.
Yeah, erm. Put down those rose tinted glasses and don't go extrapolating what China is doing. 
First and foremost, the Chinese DCEP has digital features (obviously !) but ultimately it is based on traditional features (will have the same renimbi value) and the technology is based on traditional technology, not blockchain. Why ? Because that's the only way to achieve the necessary scale. 300,000 TPS (the Chinese target) ain't gonna happen on blockchain my friend.
Secondly, China has a number of very unique reasons why they are keen to be "already experimenting" : - Fears about private companies (WeChat and AliPay) monopolising the Chinese payment system - Desire for financial inclusion and reduction in cash dependency - Better insight into payment flows and battle against illegal transactions - Restricting capital flight
- Monetary sovereignty - Desire for further international renminbi dominance (hint: BRI and Africa as obvious "keep it in the family" opportunities)
Many of the items above you will (or should be able to) recognise as somewhat Chinese politically led desires.
That's not to say its not on the radar of other central banks. But the desire or need to move at pace is not there.
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Post by mfaxford on Dec 16, 2020 18:05:48 GMT
My reference to 'physical' bitcoin is to actual bitcoin bought outright and fully funded held in a wallet or at a custodian, versus a derivative product such as a future, CFD or spread bet where there is a funding cost. Effectively you have custody and full control over the asset, not withstanding that it's intangible in nature. A few risks from the top of my head: * If it's on an exchange you risk the exchange closing down or getting hacked. If you want to keep it safe and have no plans to trade it you should manage the wallet yourself. The hardware wallets are probably best if it's for a larger value of bitcoin, or for any luddites there are also paper wallets (not very useful apart from long term storage). * The other risk is what it's worth in 3 or 12 months time. I knew people who bought bitcoin around 3 years ago as it reached it previous peak for it to only be worth a fraction of that value a couple of months later - it's now only back at the same sort of value.
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