agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 23, 2022 14:41:52 GMT
Are these figures for real. 95% loss. Thats fraud of the highest order surely. These things where supposed to be a reasonably safe bet and somehow i manage to do in 95% of my capital. Cant be right this. Question for Duck- Duck i take it this will help our cause against the FCA compensation/return of all losses claim when they can see they people have lost almost all of there money dealing in everything bar property? I'm not in any of the chattel loans, but I always thought that time was up for these loans when one of the earliest updates said that none of the chattel owners was interested in reclaiming their goods.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jul 23, 2022 14:46:13 GMT
Are these figures for real. 95% loss. Thats fraud of the highest order surely. These things where supposed to be a reasonably safe bet and somehow i manage to do in 95% of my capital. Cant be right this. Question for Duck- Duck i take it this will help our cause against the FCA compensation/return of all losses claim when they can see they people have lost almost all of there money dealing in everything bar property? Fraud has undoubtably taken place. The FCA have brought fraud charges Obviously nobody apart from the FCA and the Curries know the details of the charges at present however I note that following a meeting in May 2017 the Col directors agreed to stop taking deposits in relation to the chattels business. The chattels must have been raised at the meeting for this action to be taken, did the FCA already sense/know that something was amiss with the chattels even though at that time the FCA didn't know Col was trading without permissions?
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Jul 23, 2022 15:54:17 GMT
tommytaylor - one of the reasons I put the figures out onto the forum is that they show very starkly where one of the main issues in fact lurk; most people were probably not aware of the size of the problem, despite BDO's repeated references to them in their reports.
I personally also think that getting some idea up front of how much money might actually be coming back is worthwhile.
On that note, the property loans are interesting. BDO have managed to flog some of the properties for more than the loan value, some for less. The total of the sold property loans is about about £6.4m with just over £5m being recovered - that's about 75%. I suspect that - and this is entirely guess work as the figures will be calculated on your exposure to each loan - a 50% return will be about tops, if you are lucky.
As I have no access to the full detail of each loan recovery and as there are outstanding "assets" to be dealt with (and I think those may deliver (well) below cost of recovery returns) my percentages are purely speculative so please don't assume they are correct.
It is also worth noting that in the report to creditors (ie not to us, as we don't seem to be) there are references to cash in bank accounts and a "non-platform" loan (see page 6 of the report). It looks like these - substantial - funds may be coming our way although I could be wrong.
These possible outcomes all go some way towards explaining why competent, professional and capable Insolvency Practitioners need to be there and why they are expensive; the complexity of their task - as demonstrated by this insolvency - is a bit mind numbing.
On "expensive" for a minute, I have a sneaking suspicion that BDO's costs will not, in the end, exceed their estimates by much if anything. Now that would be impressive.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Jul 23, 2022 15:55:06 GMT
Are these figures for real. 95% loss. Thats fraud of the highest order surely. In case you missed it: "The FCA has commenced criminal proceedings against the 2 former directors of Collateral (UK) Ltd (Collateral), Peter Currie and Andrew Currie, who each face 2 charges under the Fraud Act 2006 and 1 charge under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002" www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/criminal-proceedings-collateral-uk-ltd
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 23, 2022 21:44:56 GMT
tommytaylor - one of the reasons I put the figures out onto the forum is that they show very starkly where one of the main issues in fact lurk; most people were probably not aware of the size of the problem, despite BDO's repeated references to them in their reports.
I personally also think that getting some idea up front of how much money might actually be coming back is worthwhile.
On that note, the property loans are interesting. BDO have managed to flog some of the properties for more than the loan value, some for less. The total of the sold property loans is about about £6.4m with just over £5m being recovered - that's about 75%. I suspect that - and this is entirely guess work as the figures will be calculated on your exposure to each loan - a 50% return will be about tops, if you are lucky.
As I have no access to the full detail of each loan recovery and as there are outstanding "assets" to be dealt with (and I think those may deliver (well) below cost of recovery returns) my percentages are purely speculative so please don't assume they are correct.
It is also worth noting that in the report to creditors (ie not to us, as we don't seem to be) there are references to cash in bank accounts and a "non-platform" loan (see page 6 of the report). It looks like these - substantial - funds may be coming our way although I could be wrong.
These possible outcomes all go some way towards explaining why competent, professional and capable Insolvency Practitioners need to be there and why they are expensive; the complexity of their task - as demonstrated by this insolvency - is a bit mind numbing.
On "expensive" for a minute, I have a sneaking suspicion that BDO's costs will not, in the end, exceed their estimates by much if anything. Now that would be impressive.
All BDO communications have always been addressed to stakeholders, investors (ie lenders), creditors & borrowers. This is in line with FCA guidance for Insolvency relating to companies carrying out regulated activities (BDO have been exemplary in their conduct of the administration from that perspective unlike say Moorfields) Lenders have been considered creditors from the start under s26 of the FSMA where investors are entitled to recover sums transferred to a company claiming to carry out a regulated business against the general prohibition. (Admin proposals clause 6, para 4, p14) I think that is still the position
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Jul 24, 2022 6:23:47 GMT
That clarity is most welcome, ilmoro - thanks.
Just for information and without wishing to complicate things, the latest BDO report (and probably others) draws a distinction between "creditors" and "investors" - (eg page 4) "...In addition to the claims of creditors, the Companies hold money on behalf of investors who had invested in various loans available on the Collateral peer-to-peer lending platform..." and (page 8) "...Unsecured creditors / investors As set out in my previous reports, based upon the legal advice that we have received to date (in respect of which no privilege is waived), the platform loans are assets are held on trust on behalf of investors...".
Despite the evidence, I don't think this is actually inconsistent with anything you've said.
We do live in a complicated world....
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duck
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Post by duck on Aug 7, 2022 4:16:49 GMT
From the Transparency Task ForceAn important BBC Panorama programme is scheduled for Tuesday, 16th August at 9pm.
It takes a deep dive into the Financial Conduct Authority and its failure to provide an appropriate degree of consumer protection, despite that being one of the objectives set for it by Parliament. We expect the programme to initially focus on the Blackmore Bond scandal, and then move onto the wider, systemic issues at the FCA that, in my opinion, help to explain the many other cases where people have lost money, such as Woodford, LC&F, Connaught, IRHP mis-selling by the banks, the peer to peer and pension scams, etc. I’d very like to encourage you to watch it, please, either live or on catch-up, especially as we think TTF gets a mention or two 😉. Clearly, we mustn’t waste the unique opportunity that the Panorama programme provides to create a platform for serious debate about how to reduce the incidence of chronic and catastrophic regulatory failure, and the consequential consumer detriment and reputational damage it leads to. We have therefore arranged special Zoom meetings for Parliamentarians, scam victims, campaigners, policymakers, regulators, and journalists to be able to discuss potential policy initiatives. There are 3 meetings you can attend, all as a direct result of the Panorama programme and all free: #1, on Zoom, 10pm - 11pm, Tuesday, 16th August, immediately after Panorama #2, on Zoom, 12pm - 1pm, Wednesday, 17th August #3, on Zoom, 6pm - 7pm, Wednesday, 17th August Each meeting will initially reflect on the key issues raised by Panorama, before going on to consider what Parliamentarians could do during this Parliamentary session, to legislate to improve the FCA’s consumer protection performance - we’ll be focusing on the Economic Crime Bill and the Financial Services and Markets Bill. I do hope the Panorama programme and the serious concerns it raises are of interest to you, duckie, and that you can join us for at least one of the meetings we have specially arranged. For all the details and to book yourself onto the Zoom meeting/s, click here: www.transparencytaskforce.org/post-panorama-what-could-parliamentarians-do-now/
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 7, 2022 5:19:09 GMT
Are these figures for real. 95% loss. Thats fraud of the highest order surely. In case you missed it: "The FCA has commenced criminal proceedings against the 2 former directors of Collateral (UK) Ltd (Collateral), Peter Currie and Andrew Currie, who each face 2 charges under the Fraud Act 2006 and 1 charge under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002" www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/criminal-proceedings-collateral-uk-ltdIf they were in court in January, what happened? Did I miss it back down the thread somewhere? Or was that just something preliminary.
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tommytaylor
P2P - The new wild west
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Post by tommytaylor on Aug 7, 2022 7:52:58 GMT
From the Transparency Task ForceAn important BBC Panorama programme is scheduled for Tuesday, 16th August at 9pm.
It takes a deep dive into the Financial Conduct Authority and its failure to provide an appropriate degree of consumer protection, despite that being one of the objectives set for it by Parliament. We expect the programme to initially focus on the Blackmore Bond scandal, and then move onto the wider, systemic issues at the FCA that, in my opinion, help to explain the many other cases where people have lost money, such as Woodford, LC&F, Connaught, IRHP mis-selling by the banks, the peer to peer and pension scams, etc. I’d very like to encourage you to watch it, please, either live or on catch-up, especially as we think TTF gets a mention or two 😉. Clearly, we mustn’t waste the unique opportunity that the Panorama programme provides to create a platform for serious debate about how to reduce the incidence of chronic and catastrophic regulatory failure, and the consequential consumer detriment and reputational damage it leads to. We have therefore arranged special Zoom meetings for Parliamentarians, scam victims, campaigners, policymakers, regulators, and journalists to be able to discuss potential policy initiatives. There are 3 meetings you can attend, all as a direct result of the Panorama programme and all free: #1, on Zoom, 10pm - 11pm, Tuesday, 16th August, immediately after Panorama #2, on Zoom, 12pm - 1pm, Wednesday, 17th August #3, on Zoom, 6pm - 7pm, Wednesday, 17th August Each meeting will initially reflect on the key issues raised by Panorama, before going on to consider what Parliamentarians could do during this Parliamentary session, to legislate to improve the FCA’s consumer protection performance - we’ll be focusing on the Economic Crime Bill and the Financial Services and Markets Bill. I do hope the Panorama programme and the serious concerns it raises are of interest to you, Peter, and that you can join us for at least one of the meetings we have specially arranged. For all the details and to book yourself onto the Zoom meeting/s, click here: www.transparencytaskforce.org/post-panorama-what-could-parliamentarians-do-now/Thanks for this Duck. I will most certainly be watching it. Do you think it could help out chances of full compensation from The FCA thus making sure nobody loses out after payments have been sent out from BDO.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 7, 2022 8:42:06 GMT
If they were in court in January, what happened? Did I miss it back down the thread somewhere? Or was that just something preliminary.I get the impression that every time a case goes to court it's always a preliminary issue. They never get to the nitty gritty
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duck
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Post by duck on Aug 7, 2022 8:56:48 GMT
for fear of sounding like a supermarket advert, 'every little helps'. Another area that may add to the pressure is the Complaints Commissioner. When she recently appeared at the Treasury Committee she brought up the FCA's attitued to compensation, something that she added to in her follow up letter to the Committee. That said Col is a unique case (worse than other P2P scandals, LC&F, Blackmore et al) but action has currently been closed down by the Court Case. The lings and I have everything ready to take up the fight after the trial. In answer to Greenwood2 as reported by Mousey The important thing on the preliminary hearings is that the trial date hasn't been moved (11/04/2023). Some cases attract several 'pre trial reviews' others many more.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Aug 7, 2022 9:02:36 GMT
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ganymede
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Post by ganymede on Aug 7, 2022 11:57:24 GMT
there will be stories like this one...
"In January 2018, City of London Police raided Asset Backed Management's office and seized Exmount sales brochures and records showing Burgess's company and its cold-calling staff were collecting up to 40 per cent commission on bonds sold. Officials from the Financial Conduct Authority were present but took no action to stop other firms marketing Exmount bonds, with sales continuing for 18 months."
Just another of those stories about the FCA, there and just stood, watched did follow up.
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Post by leslav84 on Aug 8, 2022 7:45:36 GMT
Hi. I was just wondering, has anyone received any money yet as part of this "interim payments" plan? Does anyone more knowledgeable about the matter has any thoughts? I was wondering whether is it going to be a few months, maybe before the end of the year?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 8, 2022 8:27:18 GMT
Hi. I was just wondering, has anyone received any money yet as part of this "interim payments" plan? Does anyone more knowledgeable about the matter has any thoughts? I was wondering whether is it going to be a few months, maybe before the end of the year? Not yet. The 35 days to the bar date isnt up yet. Until that is reached we wont know if there are any challenges to the plan which may cause further delay. I would expect any update around the middle of August when the bar date has passed advising a timeframe for payments.
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